Important Note: Richard Bodley Scott is working on an official set of revisions for HOTT. The current proposals can be found here. These will make much of this FAQ redundant, but are highly recommended. Playtesting so far has shown that they offer a game that is much easier to understand, as many of the issues raised here are more than adequately dealt with.
This document is a FAQ for 'Hordes of the Things'. It is designed to give sensible answers to questions which have been raised with the rules. These answers are based either on those received from the authors, discussion on the HOTT and DBM mailing lists or personal solutions based on common sense. It may be that you disagree with them, and that is your right. It may be that some of the answers are totally wrong, and contradict the rules, in which case let me know. However, I hope that the contents of this page will give players a consistent and neutral set of answers to problems they encounter. Just remember, at the end of the day they are the interpretations that I use and am happy with. Use your own if you disagree with them, but this is how I play the game.
Note that some of the rules in here may seem to contradict those in similar games such as DBA and DBM. Please remember that these other games have been updated since their initial publication, and certain things added or clarified. HOTT is still in its first edition (and long may it remain so, if changes to other rules in the name of 'new editions' are anything to go by), and was based on the original DBA rules. This means that the text of the rules is less clear and concise as other Wargames Research Group sets (and that's saying something). Some clarifications are based on the approach adopted in these similar sets of rules, but this in itself is fraught with difficulties as the different DBx rules are not necessarily consistent between themselves. If attempting to use other DBx rules to clarify a situation in HOTT, use DBA first, as this is the closest in scale and style. If this fails, use DBM. I can't comment on how DBR works, but it is probably too far removed from HOTT to offer much in the way of useful clarification. Use with caution.
I am more than happy to answer questions about the rules, so send them in and I will try to help.
Last Updated: 1st April 2001 (v1.15)
General Rules
Troop Type Specific Rules
If an element is on an oversized base, how far does it recoil or pursue?
For simplicity it is best to assume that elements recoil or pursue according to their base depths, although there are some issues of advantage and balance which may need to be addressed. The rule of thumb is that this method will work as long as it not abused by unscrupulous players (if such a beast plays HOTT).
Recoil and pursuit movements could be made according to the recommended base sizes in the rules rather than the actual base sizes. For example (using 15mm scale base depths) a Behemoth on a 60mm deep base will still recoil or pursue 40mm. An exception to this is certain infantry, such as Blades, which may be on a slightly deeper base than the 15mm (in 15mm scale) allowed fro reasons of compatibility with such things as DBA or DBM; they should recoil according to their actual depth. Warband on a narrower base than the allowed 20mm (15mm scale, again) should recoil 20mm.
Regardless of which convention you use all base depths used should conform to one of the recommended depths. In 15mm these are 15mm, 20mm, 30mm, 40mm and 60mm. For really big things 80mm would be next, and above that I think is getting a bit large for 15mm scale figures!
Do elements in corner to corner contact count as a group for movement purposes?
Yes, but only if they are facing in the same direction.
An element within one base width of an enemy is limited in its movement. One of its options is to 'retire'. What does 'to retire' allow the element to do?
This is something of a bone of contention amongst HOTT players, but there is a majority in favour of the opinion that the element moves directly to its own rear, even if this takes it across the front or towards the enemy (which it could turn to face instead). It may retire in this way up to its full move distance, but may not make any other movement even when clear of the enemy frontal zone. The element could turn through 180 degrees to face or contact an enemy behind it.
If an element crossing a river is attacked in the flank by a Water Lurker or Aerial it turns to face. If it is forced to recoil, is it destroyed because it cannot move along the river?
Yes.
Ground elements can only move through lakes or sea if crossing to or from an island. How does this work?
The rules do not desribe this very well. At all, in fact. My suggestion would be that an element can enter the water feature at any point, but all subsequent movement must be directly towards the nearest part of the island or mainland. Any voluntary deviation is forbidden, and any enorced deviation (apart from turning to face) is fatal as it is forbidden (see 'Rivers') above. Needless to say, making such a move in the face of enemy Aerials or Water Lurkers is not advised!
Is the line of sight to and from aerial elements blocked by hills, built up areas and woods for the purposes of determining whether an element is within range of its general?
Yes.
Do Shooters and Artillery have to fire at the nearest target?
No. They can shoot at any eligible target.
A Shooter is shot at from the rear by an enemy Shooter, and is forced to recoil. It first turns to face, and then recoils. Is it then allowed to shoot if there is a legitimate target in front of it?
Yes, assuming that it has not already shot in this bound. Note that this target may be the Shooter that forced it to recoil, but since this Shooter has already fired this bound there will be no return shot.
Page 12, first para under "distant shooting": "Artillery and Shooters can shoot ... but only if neither is in contact with nor overlapping enemy." Does this mean the firing unit cannot be an overlap or the target unit?
It means you cannot shoot if either you (the firer) or your opponent (the target) are an overlap or in contact.
If the firer is in a position to be an overlap then it cannot shoot. You cannot choose to be an overlap; if you are in the overlap position you are overlapping and shooting is prohibited.
"A 2nd or 3rd element that shoots at the same target element aids the shooting of the 1st instead of its action being resolved separately." If a 4th element can be brought to bear, is its shooting resolved as a separate attack, a support for the first element or just ignored?
It is ignored.
How do Clerics and Paladins affect bespelling?
The target of a bespelling attempt receives a bonus if the line of fire passes within 600p of a Paladin or Cleric. The line of fire is assumed to be the shortest line from any part of the base of the Magician to any part of the base of the target element. If any part of this line, including the end points, passes within 600p of a Paladin or Cleric then the target gets the bonus.
Do friendly Clerics and Paladins affect bespelling attempts?
Yes. It follows that putting Clerics and Paladins in the same army as Magicians makes things a bit tricky.
Does a Magician have to bespell the nearest enemy?
No. Note that there is no line of sight requirement for bespelling, that the target (but not the Magician) can be in combat or overlapping, and that a Magician can bespell in any direction.
When assessing the result of bespelling attempts, do elements in contact with the target influence the result?
Yes. For example, a friendly Warband is in contact with an enemy Blade. You bespell the Blade and beat it. Ordinarily the Blade would recoil, but as the Warband is the most dangerous element to the Blade, and is in contact with it, the Blade is destroyed.
Do overlapping elements affect a bespelling attempt?
No. Overlaps only count for close combat, although this is only implied in the rules rather than stated outright. Bespelling and shooting both have their own separate overlap rules, involving additional bespellers and shooters respectively.
Is there a maximum number of elements that can be interpenetrated or overflown?
No. However, and element making a voluntary move cannot exceed its move distance, so if it wants to interpenetrate or fly over another element and cannot clear it with ts movement, then it cannot do so. An element recoiling can interpenetrate as many elements as it needs to until it finds a clear space, or reaches something it cannot pass through or over, in which case it is destroyed.
How do elements line up?
When moving into contact, an element or group may move laterally in order to line up with enemy elements. They may not exceed their movement to do this, however. For the sake of simplicity, stop an element or group short of the enemy if it cannot line up because it has insufficient movement. This saves problems with contacts that aren't combat, as there are enough of these with flank contacts and Aerials vs ground troops. Aim to make life easier.
What constitues a legal flank contact?
To count a legel contact on an enemy left flank, the attacker's left front corner must contact the defenders left fron t corner, and the attacker's front edge must be in contact with the defender's flank. A right flank contact is the same, except that front right corners must touch.
Note that this means that if the defending element recoils, it may still have the attackers front edge in contact with its flank, but this will not count as a legal flank contact. One or other element must move to resume the contact. There is a school of though that allows this as a legal contact, however.
Two opposing elements are in flank edge to flank edge contact, but no corners contact. If one is in frontal contact with an enemy is it considered to be overlapped?
No. To count as an overlap both right or both left front corners must be touching.
If an element is contacted in the flank or rear, when does it turn to face?
Assuming that it is not also contacted to the front, it will turn to face after all shooting is resolved, just before close combats are resolved. If contacted on more than one face, it turns to face the rear if contacted, otherwise the first flank contacted. The other enemy element move backwards or forwards to conform to the element's movement, whilst still maintaining contact.
The only exception to this is that an element of the player whose bound it is can turn to face a legal flank contact during movement, at no PIP cost.
Note that this is a personal view, although I, and others, do feel that it is supported by the rules. It is certainly consistent with DBA and DBM. There is, however, a school of thought that turning to face takes place immediately when the contact occurs.
If an element is forced to recoil or flee and has an enemy in contact with its flank, is it destroyed?
No. Note that the flanking element may affect the combat if it is of a more dangerous type than the frontal element.
If the flank contact still exists at the end of the next movement phase, the flanked element turns to face if not frontally contacted.
Does the -2 for being in bad going apply to close combat only?
This is a tricky one. The rules would seem to imply that it doesn't, but it creates a number of strange situations. My personal view is that the penalty only applies to close combat, and not shooting or bespelling. Note that the beneficial effects of woods and built up areas with regard to protection from shooting are given by the +2 cover bonus gained by troops in them.
If an element is contacted to its front and rear, as well as being overlapped on both flanks, does it get a -3 combat penalty?
Yes.
How does a fleeing element affect those elements behind it?
A fleeing element recoils just over a base depth before starting to flee. This is different to recoiling element, which recoils exactly a base depth. The effect of this is that an element exactly one base depth behind an element starting to flee will affect the flee move, blocking it or forcing an interpenetration, as required by the rules.
Does a fleeing element change facing?
No. It should end its flee move facing the direction from which it came. Treat the flee as a very long recoil, except that the element can change direction as described in the rules.
Can a fleeing element turn to avoid a table edge?
No. It will flee off the table, and count as lost.
Do elements that flee off the table have to recoil first?
Unless Lurkers, yes, they do. They recoil a base depth, then are removed, without having to trace a path to the table edge.
When does an element of Behemoths, Beasts, Knights or Warband pursue a defeated close combat opponent?
The opponent must either recoil, flee or be destroyed. The winner is eligible to pursue if there is no enemy element in contact with it, or if it is not now in a position to act as an overlap for another close combat.
An element of Blades is fighting a Horde to its front. The Horde is also attacked in the flank by a Warband. The Blades win and the Horde is destroyed (because of the Warband in contact). Does the Warband pursue?
No. The rules would seem to imply otherwise, but it creates tricky situations if more than one impetuous element is involved in the combat. An element should only pursue if it is the one in frontal contact with the enemy.
When does an element count as having left the table?
If any part of an element's base leaves the table, then the whole element is assumed to have left, and is removed, counting as lost.
How does an army lose a battle?
An army loses if at the end of any bound (friendly or enemy) any of the following has occurred:
If a Horde or Lurker returns to the battlefield after being lost (destroyed or fled), does it still cont against the enemy's total of lost elements?
No. Think of it like ths; and element that is on the table, or that has not yet been deployed on the table does not count as lost. One that has been on the table at some point during the game, but that has now been removed for whatever reason counts as lost. Once it comes back, it ceases to be lost.
Only certain troop types can engage aerial elements in close combat. If a non-eligible troop type moves into frontal contact with an enemy aerial element, it is not therefore considered to be in close combat. In its own bound, does the aerial element have to expend PIPs to 'contact' this non-eligible element.
Yes. It counts as a move, so costs the extra PIP for moving aerials. Non-combat contacts of this nature should be marked somehow. Note that elements in such a situation can act as overlaps for adjacent close combats.
Can an element recoil under an enemy Flier or Aerial Hero?
Yes, as long as the enemy Flier or Aerial Hero is not currently in close combat, including in contact with the recoiling element.
A Flier attacks an element and is forced to recoil. Is the Flier then assumed to be in the air or can it be contacted normally in the following bound by a ground element?
A Flier cannot overfly enemy whilst recoiling, but I think that if it successfully recoils then it is airborne and immune to counterattack by most things on the ground. This saves having to mark, or remember, which Fliers are eligible for attack. If, however, the Flier loses to an element that pursues and can maintain contact by that pursuit (such as a Knight), then it should still be considered in combat.
Does the -2 for being in bad going apply to aerial units?
Although they are not excluded from it, it is stated that they only count Woods and Built Up Areas as bad going. This would suggest that they ignore other terrain. Note that Aerials cannot end a move in Woods or Built Up Areas, so only get the -2 if fighting an enemy on the edge of such terrain. The opponent of an Aerial is affected by bad going as normal, so if a Blade and Flier fight in brush, the Blade gets the -2 and the Flier does not. In essence an Aerial can never actually be in bad going, as it cannot enter the only terrain it actually counts as bad going i.e. Woods and BUAs.
An Aerial's recoil will means that it ends up in a wood. What happens?
It is destroyed as it has met terrain that, essentially, it cannot end a move in.
An Aerial is contacted to the flank and turns to face. The turn means that part of its base ends up in a wood. What happens?
The Aerial (and it's attacker) should be adjusted by the minimum necessary to prevent any part of its base being in the wood.
Consider the following situation:
K1K1K2K2
F1F1R1R1
where K1 and K2 are Knights facing down the page, F1 is an enemy Flier and R1 is an enemy Rider. The Knights move forwards into contact. K2 contacts R1, K1 moves into base contact with F1, but not combat because it is a ground element. What happens when the combats are resolved?
K2 and R1 fight. F1 and K1 act as overlaps despite technically being in contact with each other.
Beasts do not get a -2 if they are in bad going, but do seem to get it if fighting an enemy in bad going whilst they are not. Is this a correct interpretation of the last modifier on Page 13? (Beasts are an exception in the first clause, but the second clause applies the penalty to all mounted, including, presumably, Beasts.)
Phil Barker himself says "It is a correct interpretation, but it may be a mistake". However he suggested to play it as written. As Beasts seem to be a special case as regards the interaction between mounted troops and bad going, assume that they do not get the -2 combat penalty, even though this contradicts the letter of the rules. Tell them I said so
What happens if a recoiling Behemoth meets another element?
If the element is not another Behemoth, Dragon or God, then it is destroyed, and the Behemoth continues its recoil. Otherwise the Behemoth is destroyed unless it can pass under the element blocking it (if it is a friendly God or Dragon).
When a Behemoth recoils it kills what ever it recoils into. Does it also die if recoils into something it cannot pass through? ie: an element in a counter position.
No. If it destroys something then it just carries on recoiling. Only if it meets something it cannot pass through, push back, or destroy is a Behemoth destroyed.
What happens if a '6' is rolled to deploy a God, but there is no space next to the general or a Hero to place it?
The God cannot be deployed.
The attacker deployes replacement Hordes at the centre of their base edge. If replacing more than one Horde during a bound, how are Hordes subsequent to the first placed?
The first Horde placed must be moved out of the way. Note that a Horde that has been replaced can move on the same bound, so it is possible to replace a Horde, move it, replace another Horde, move that and then replace a third Horde.
If centre of the edge (or the the road on that edge) is occupied by an element (friendly or enemy) or impassable terrain, can the Horde be placed?
If the point is blocked by friendly element then the Horde cannot be placed until those elements are moved out of the way. If it is an enemy element or impassable terrain then the Horde should be place as close to the centre point (or road) as possible.
If there is nowhere adjacent to the stronghold to replace a Horde can it be placed?
No.
If a Horde element includes the General and it is destroyed, does the replacement Horde include a replacement General?
No. Although the Horde can be replaced, the General is lost for good.
Does it ever cost extra PIPs to replace Hordes, if the General is lost or too far away for example?
No. Replacing a Horde is not a move.
If there is nowhere to replace a desorcelled Hero, because of blocking elements or terrain, where is he placed?
If the Hero is supposed to appear adjacent to the enemy stronghold on the base edge, then place him adjacent to the stronghold as close to the base edge as possible. If there is no space at all adjacent to the stronghold, then the Hero cannot be placed.
If the Hero is to be placed in the centre of a base edge then place him as close to the centre as possible.
Do Aerial heroes take combat results as Heroes or Other Aerial?
Heroes.
On Page 10 it states that a Lurker '...can be placed in contact with an enemy element that has just entered ... bad going ...'. Does this mean that if the Lurker is not placed on the player bound immediately after that in which the enemy entered the bad going it cannot be placed next to that enemy at all. For example, an enemy Warband enters bad going on Bound 1. On my Bound 1 I don't place the Lurker. The Warband remains where it is on its Bound 2. On my Bound 2 can I place the Lurker or have I lost the chance?
The chance is lost. Lurkers must be placed at the first opportunity. A Lurker can be placed adjacent to an enemy that is initially deployed in bad going, so long as it done in the first bound of the Lurker's side.
Note that the rules seem to suggest that Water Lurkers are not bound by this restriction, and can be placed next to any enemy in a water feature, regardless of when the enemy entered such a feature. The troop definitions for Lurkers state that both types must be placed next to an enemy that has just entered the relevant terrain however
Is there any restriction as to where a Lurker can be placed?
Not as such. It must be placed in contact with an enemy element that has just entered bad going (Normal Lurker) or is in a water feature (Water Lurker). This placement costs PIPs and counts as a move, so is subject to the extra PIP cost for distance from General. Thus, it costs more to place a Lurker out of sight of, or a long way from, the army's General. A Lurker must be placed entirely within the feature in which it appear, although there must be some flexibility in this, given that the Lurker's base may be bigger than the feature! There is no restriction as to which edge of the enemy element the Lurker must contact, subject to the normal rules for such contacts.
A Lurker is removed if it destroys all opponents within 600p. Is it removed at the instant this occurs?
Yes.
It is possible for a Lurker to be deployed, not destroy all opponents and not be forced to flee but to have no enemy within 600p. Is the Lurker removed in this case? If so, when?
It is not removed.
If a Lurker is destroyed (i.e. its combat score is half or less than that of its opponent's), can it reappear?
No, it is lost for good.
If a Lurker is forced to turn to face such that the whole of its base leaves the terrain in which it appeared, what happens?
The Lurker is forced to leave the terrain and fight in the open. Any subsequent voluntary move by the Lurker must be back into its terrain. An element fighting a Water Lurker in these circumstances should not get the -2 penalty.
If a Magician beats a Hero in close combat, is the Hero ensorcelled?
Yes.
If a desorcelled Magician is replaced does it have to have the same facing as it had before it was ensorcelled?
Yes.
If the point where the Magician should be replaced is occupied fully or partially by an element is it replaced as close as possible to the point or can it not be replaced until the area is clear? If it can be replaced in this circumstance can it be placed in contact with the enemy element?
It cannot be replaced.
Can a Sneaker interpenetrate an element in close combat?
It does not appear to be prohibited, so yes, it can.
Can a Sneaker break off from an enemy by moving through it?
Yes, as long as its movement in the terrain in which it ends its movement is greater than that of the enemy element.
Is a Sneaker bound by the movement restrictions caused by the front of an enemy element within one base width?
Yes. Even if interpenetrating an enemy element, no part of the Sneaker's base can cross the front of an enemy element. This does not prevent interpenetration, but just limits the direction of approach or route through the enemy. Note that enemy elements are also bound by the equivalent zone in front of the Sneaker.
Can Sneakers contact or be contacted by enemy elements?
Yes. However this is in some respects optional, as the Sneaker and the enemy can choose to interpenetrate each other instead, subject to frontal zone movement restrictions, of course.
Does a Sneaker fight?
Yes. Combat between Sneakers and other elements is resolved in the same way as all other combat. The difference is in the results; the only opponents of a Sneaker that suffer any ill effects if they lose are generals, other Sneakers or a Stronghold. Other elements ignore the result. Note that if they are slower than the Sneaker they still cannot break off however. Sneakers suffer combat results from all element types.
Can enemy elements recoil through a friendly Sneaker?
Yes. If a recoiling element meets an enemy Sneaker, it just passes through it. It is not destroyed.
Can an Aerial Hero capture a Stronghold by beating its score ?
No. No aerial element can capture a Stronghold by itself, unless the total score of the stronghold is half or less that of the attacking element. Non-aerial elements capture a stronghold just by beating its score.
Note that combat results are calculated based on the most dangerous thing in contact with an element, not the element it is actually fighting. Thus, if an Aerial Hero attacks a Stronghold, supported by a Horde, the Stronghold will fall if it loses the combat. Although it fights the Aerial Hero, the Horde is the most dangerous thing in contact with it, as a losing Stronghold falls to any non-aerial element in contact.
Can a Stronghold be placed in bad going? If so, does it suffer the -2 close combat penalty?
A Stronghold can be placed in bad going. It is not included in the list of troop types that do not get the bad going penalty, so should get the penalty. Note that troops attacking it will also get the penalty, unless they are themselves exempt. Also note that an enemy Stronghold in bad going could be attacked by friendly lurkers on the first bound.
Note, however, that most Strongholds include not only some sort of 'structure', such as a tower or other base of operations, but a certain amount of intrinsic terrain. For example, a Stronghold could be a treehous in woods, or a castle on a crag. In these cases the woods and crag are included in the base, and their terrain penalties essentially built into the +6 factor for the Stronghold. It should really be a house rule that all Strongholds should be placed in flat good going, as this prevents all sorts of problems. Note that an enemy attacking a Stronghold may have to do so across a river or out of bad going from certain directions. In this case, any penalties to the attacker, or defensive benefits for defending river lines should be applied.
If an army has Water Lurkers but there are no water features on the table, do the Water Lurkers count as lost?
No. However they cannot be deployed, or converted to ordinary lurkers.
How fast do Water Lurkers move?
Although not listed as an exception to the 100p wading move, they should really be treated as 'Other foot moving off road' and allowed a 200p move.
Are Water Lurkers in a lake really limited to movement that only goes to and from an island (as other ground elements are)?
According to the strict wording of the rules, yes, they are. However, common sense suggests that they should be excluded from this rule, and allowed to freely roam lakes and other water features.
Does a lake with a river flowing into it, or a river with a tributary count as one feature or two for the purposes of Water Lurker movement once placed? e.g. can a Water Lurker deployed in a lake move into the river flowing out of it as well, or is it limited to the lake?
I would suggest that all connected water features are treated as the same feature.