Reminiscing Page 2
The Wall City Jazz Band c1955
John Lindop sent me this photograph of the Wall City Jazz Band c1955, which was taken at Clemences in Chester.
L to R : Ian Ashworth, Alan Lewis (both deceased) Joe Nuttall, Tom Jones, John Lindop, Stan Roberts and Paul Blake
The Muskrat Jazz Band
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Tony Davis (Liverpool) sent me this picture and gave me this account of the band over the phone
The original Muskrat was Johnny and Alf Jones on trumpet and trombone respectively, they went to the States and Canada and Alf wound up playing with the Woody Herman, they were both playing in exalted company in America, there's no doubt about that, the two of them did very well. Johnny- a bit erratic, but Alf was a very dependable trombone player. The Merseys wanted him too join them, but there was no way he could do it, he wouldn't leave his brother. I was the clarinet player, along with a guy called Geoff Grant, (his real name was Goldstone, but his family had to change the name to Grant because of anti Semitic prejudice around the the place and they changed their name to Grant). So Geoff Grant was on clarinet and alto saxophone a bit, that was the front line.
Muriel Holmes (as she was then), was on piano, she was my sister-in law, and later went off to the Panama Jazz Band after I went off to college, and eventually she married the Panama's trombone player, Ron Minshall, and went off to Canada. She never played the piano after she left England. She was a great Jelly Roll Morton stylist. Gerry Grogan was on Sousaphone, he was one of the very first members. We got Gerry when we were playing in Wallasey, he was in the audience and someone dragged him over. He wasn't a jazz man, he was a very fine brass band musician, and he was listening to us, and I got talking to him, and it came out that he played tuba a bit. I forget how it happened, but between us we bought a sousaphone, and that's how he went on to play it with the band. He used to carry it around in a sack, and he used to get stopped by the police in Liverpool with this sack over his shoulder. He'd been a docker, and he'd be walking round in his working clothes, and he'd get stopped, and the policeman would say, "What's that?", and Gerry would say, "It's a sousaphone", and he'd say, "Come on, what is it?", so he'd tip it out on to the pavement. When we'd finished our sessions in Liverpool on a Monday night, we used to go round to the Aldelphi Hotel, which was very very posh, and we'd sit in the lounge and drink coffee, and Gerry would be in his overalls, and his sousaphone in a sack.
That was the band - Gerry Grogan on sousaphone, Tony Davis on clarinet, Muriel Holmes on piano and Trevor Carlisle on drums - he later went to the Merseysippi Jazz Band. We didn't have a banjo player at first at all, then Tommy Kirby played banjo for a while, and Muriel used to have to kick him to change chord. He knew all the chords, but he could never feel when the change was due, so Muriel used to give him a nudge to change the chord. On trumpet by this time was Jack Walford. In the picture which was taken after I left, is Billy Bent on trombone, Jack Walford on trumpet, Tom Kirby? on clarinet, Colin Whittick on drums (he came in after Trevor left to join the Merseys), and Gerry Grogan on sousaphone, but the banjo player remains a mystery. Do you know?
The Panama Jazz Band in the 50's
Lineup - Ron Minshall (tbn), Alistair Wallace (gtr), John Lindop (sousa),
Copple Davies (tpt), Dave Renton (bjo),
?????? (dms) , John Wilson (clt), Laurie Renton (pno)
Photograph courtesy John Lindop
John Dodgshon now lives in the USA, but pays visits “home” from time to time. Despite his modest disclaimer he has become a fine trumpet player - TJD
“I remember Ron Minshall (trombone), John Wilson (Clarinet), Dave Renton (banjo) and Stan Minshall (playing piano chords) meeting weekly at Dave's home to play jazz in the latter half 1954. At this time Dave had been teaching JD (me!) to play guitar and sing folk songs and he invited me to come to these sessions and listen to what was going on. At this time I knew absolutely nothing about jazz. Eventually I sat in for a few songs. Jazz education was furthered by record sessions at Dave's and Ron's homes. Johnny Bates, I believe, was running a weekly jazz record session at a café in Victoria Road, New Brighton. At these sessions, a couple of dozen folks would bring their LPs, EPs, and 78s and heatedly discuss their relative merits. This was a good learning experience for me.
Laurie Renton, Dave's brother, completed his army service and joined the weekly sessions chez Renton on piano. Stan switched to washboard at this time. This was when the group really started to become a band. I think Dave came up with the name, Panama Jazz Band, at about this time. The first gig that I remember was at a youth club in Birkenhead. This gig was arranged by a friend who worked with Dave at Dunlops. The Band had no trumpet player at this time so the front line comprised John on clarinet and Ron on trombone.
In June of 1955, JD (me!), bought a second hand trumpet and began the long , difficult, and still incomplete process of trying to learn the damn thing! Then- PJB had found a trumpeter, an ex-Butlins Redcoat named Copple Davies. The drumming deficiency was solved by the arrival of Alf Tweedle, a dance band drummer from Liverpool. (I can remember that we all thought that Alf was of advanced age but, decades later, when I asked him about this, he told me that he was about 30 when he joined PJB!)”
Ken
Sims departed for London late in 1956 to join Cy Laurie's band. His talents
definitely deserved to be heard in a grander setting. Ken was replaced by Jack
Brierly I think, a cornet player from Chester, who also introduced Johnny
Lindop to the band. Johnny was a sousaphone player, also from Chester, who
drove a Morgan three-wheeler car with his sousaphone wrapped around the spare
wheel at the back. These changes naturally gave the band a different sound.. I
joined PJB in late spring of 1957, replacing Jack. Meanwhile, Johnny Lindop
had also left leaving Stan on string bass. The first gig I played was a
Riverboat Shuffle on the Royal Iris (the green and yellow ferry boat). The
Merseysippi Jazz Band had top billing (rightfully so, of course) and I think
Ralph Watmough's band and, possibly, the Liverpool University Jazz Band
(featuring the Higham brothers) were also on the menu. I also remember that
singer Joyce Jerman* was on the bill. Joyce, whose philosophy was 'there is no
fate worse than death', was the producer when I made my only theatre
appearance in Pantopera... Shortly after I joined PJB Laurie left and was replaced by an
excellent pianist, Muriel Holmes, who had previously played with the Muskrat
Jazz Band. -----------and so Muriel takes up the story!
“I had left Muskrats sometime in 1955, I think. I know I played with the university briefly when they were between piano players, with the Higham bros. Shortly after your wedding** the Muskrats asked me to sub with them because they had a gig at the Wallasey Jazz Club. Someone from Panama asked me if I had gone back to the Muskrats and I said "NO!" Soon after I was invited to play with the Panama. At that time I recall that I was on piano, Stan was on bass, Dave was on banjo, and ?? on drums. Ron was on trombone, John Wilson was briefly on clarinet followed by Bruce. I can't remember when Ken Simms was on trumpet. I mostly recall Johnny Dodgshon on trumpet. Ron left to do his two years in the army, December 31, 1956. The little short guy in the photos took over on trombone. Some of the photos taken in 1957 show Ron playing while he was on leave. Dave Renton did not take over on trombone until sometime after we came to Canada.
I know we were one of the very first bands to play at the Cavern when it first opened as a Jazz Club. Whenever we played at a dance I played all of the waltzes alone. The guys all left the stage and went for a beer. Drums may have stayed.
I played with the band until we came to Canada around end of May 1959. I am sure Ron probably played those last months as well, from Dec. 1958 - May 1959 but I am not really sure.
Jazz at Liverpool Stadium
There have been some memorable jazz concerts that took place at Liverpool Stadium, including Louis Armstrong. What surely must come a close second is this concert for which I'm reproducing this programme which was sent to me by Rod Bleackley, who runs an interesting web site at fab4southport.com. That must have been some event, did you go?
Click
on each picture for a larger image
The Iron Door Club, Liverpool
08/01/2008 -
Hello Fred,
Recent mention of the Iron Door Club in Liverpool reminded me of my college days
there. I think at one time it was also called the Storyville Club.
I played banjo with two bands in that Club - Alf Tweedle's Dixielanders and Dave
Wilson's Dixielanders. Alf and Dave were both clarinet players. The rest of the
personnel was virtually the same in both bands!
I remember the change in Liverpool when the beat bands started to take over the
jazz clubs. One night in the Iron Door Club playing I was playing jazz, then in
the interval Rory Storm and the Hurricanes took over the stage. The jazz fans
retreated to the coffee bar above, and were met on the narrow staircase by a
different crowd going down for the "new" music.
John Irwin
08/01/2008
Rory Storm and the Hurricanes (Ringo would have been on the drums at this time) started at the Iron Door in 1960. I think the year 1961, is possibly the year John is remembering. Yes, John is correct we did use the name Storyville Jazz Club, it was also called the Liverpool Jazz Society. But always known as the Iron Door. The name changers were necessary because of the activities by the authorities, (Police) who for some reason wanted us closed down. A conflict of interest developed because we didn't want to go!.
Geoff Hogarth
07/03/09 -
Reading the recent tribute to Dave Lind, on the North West Jazz site I noticed an item from Phil Morris ex- Dave Lind's trumpet player who mentioned the Iron Door Club in Temple Street Liverpool 2. I was one of the original owners of the club I was surprised to read Phil Morris mention the Yogi Bear and Boo Boo, I didn't think that anyone would have remembered this incident from 1960 which lead to the club forfeiting its drinks licence. I also have visions of the band rehearsing early Sunday mornings. Also mentioned this week Mick Shores Tuxedo Jazz Band who also played at the club, both were excellent sounding bands.
Geoff Hogarth