Start times, CLICK to choose 05.45 09.00 12.00

15.30

ANNOTATED SELECTIONS FROM WINTER WEEKDAY DAYTIME BR(LM) TIMETABLE FOR CARLISLE CITADEL STATION IN 1963 /1964

The following has been extracted from the BR (London Midland) timetable starting with the first daytime train and ending with the last. The whole timetable would be tedious to analyse in detail, but it avalable as a listing - see Options. I have decided to comment on typical examples, giving some information on service frequency - especially for local trains. The comments stem from my experience and from many books, photographs and articles studied over the years, as well as the timetable from which the information has been extracted - although the last timetable page is missing!. By 1963 most mainline services were diesel hauled, local services were mainly by DMU - going back for about eight years. However, the timetable appears to have been constructed to allow for the possibility of steam haulage, otherwise why should a stop last five to eight minutes when the sharpest can be as little as two minutes? Similarly on local services there is ample evidence of steam trains being interspersed with DMU's. Many of the comments refer to motive power in steam days. It must be remembered that loco. patterns were not consistent from timetable to timetable. This was particularly true during the changeover from steam to diesel for it took time to train up the footplate staff, so there were cases of steam relieving diesels - not only because of mechanical breakdown but also because of the unavailabilty of trained staff to take over the incoming diesel! The night time services timetable comment and description is under preparation.

TIME is given as 24 hr clock although the printed BR timetable was a.m. and p.m.
MODE: A = ARRIVE; D = DEPART; S = START; T = TERMINATE.

The information on the 'Platform' is from observation, photographs and memory and so is NOT 100% reliable!

05.45 - 09.00

TIME/M T/MODE FROM TO PLATF'M / TITLE

05.45 S CARLISLE WHITEHAVEN

2
Pl 2 was formerly known as the 'M & C Bay'. The Maryport and Carlisle Railway was one of the first railways to be built and it remained independent through to the Groupings. The route was built to a tight loading gauge. This means that carriages had to be fitted with bars to drop light windows to stop the natives leaning out and being decapitated. This situation has continued so that dedicated stock is used, unless it has no windows suitable for leaning out! In later steam days the standard power was 2-6-4 Tanks of various designs. In 1963 there were fifteen trains per day and a similar number run nowadays - some going on the Barrow Lancaster. However, the first departure is now 07.58!

05.45A 06.18D EUSTON GLASGOW (S ENOCH) 1

This train is unusual in two respects. Firstly it originates in Euston yet ends up in Glasgow St Enoch, the Sou' Western terminus, normally one would expect it to go to Glasgow Central. Secondly it has an extremely long stay in Carlisle. Part of the reason for the latter is the addition to the train of a restaurant car to provide breakfasts for the passengers. In Carlisle this train had the nickname The Porridge! The expected locomotive incoming for such a night train would be a Duchess, but it more likely that went forward with a Royal Scot or Jubilee, or in later steam days perhaps a Britannia.

06.46A   EUSTON GLASGOW CEN 1?
The last sleeper from Euston. Another leisurely stop as a Restaurant car was attached and, no doubt, an engine change took place. As the earlier train served the Sou' West route, covering the very West coast of Scotland, this train followed the Caley route,
06.45 S CARLISLE SILLOTH

8

The line to Silloth had not long to go. Since November 1955 the service had been provided with DMUs (Class 108 was certainly used. In steam days ex LNER J39's had been much in evidence. Platform 8 (formerly Number 4 Bay) was much longer than Platform 7. Until the 1950's Pl 8 had a wooden extension, now made of concrete. It was almost certainly added to cope with the longer trains to Silloth needed for high days and holidays as Silloth was a favourite destination from the Carlisle area for people seeking fresh sea air. Many a Sunday School trip ventured to Silloth on Summer Saturdays. The line was closed in 1964 despite vociferous protests. In 1963 there were seven trains to Silloth on weekdays.

07.00 S CARLISLE NEWCASTLE

5 OR 6
The Newcastle and Carlisle Railway was the first trains - Pennine route and was also part of the first North - South route to London - ahead of the completion of the Lancaster - Carlisle Railway. In steam days the motive power was varied, including B1's, V2's. Footballers, Hunts as well as more mundane loco's. In 1963 there were eleven trains a day to Newcastle, and in 2001 there are fifteen.
07.36 T DUMFRIES CARLISLE

7 OR 8
Dumfries had its own loco shed (68B) which in steam days would provide power for this train. Dumfries is on the Sou' West route (GSWR) which had running powers over the former Caley route from Gretna Junction to the Citadel. In pre - 1923 days the GSWR had its own locoshed at Currock, Carlisle, very near the M & C shed. The good warehouse was at Denton Holme which survived as such until May 1984, when a divided portion of freight train freewheeled down Shap and demolished the bridge over the River Caldew near to the goods facilities, severing direct access from the Goods Avoiding Line and so changing freight patterns for ever (perhaps!)

08.05 S CARLISLE HELLIFIELD 5 OR 6

Although nowadays this is called the Settle - Carlisle, in steam days in Carlisle this was 'the Midland'. The locos used for local rain would often be Fowler 2P's. Those based at Carlisle would be from the Durranhill shed, which had a chequered 'open then shut' career after the 1923 Groupings. When it was closed locos. worked from Upperby shed.

08.40 S CARLISLE EUSTON 4

The first day time train to London - calling at most town stations as far as Rugby. It took most of the day to effect the journey, arriving in Euston at 16.15 hrs, an hour later than the Caledonian which departed from Carlisle almost two hours later. The 08.40 was usually hauled by a Duchess, but really it was a case of anything available as it was hardly a 'crack express'!

09.00 - 12.00

09.20 START CARLISLE EDINBURGH WAV 3
The first day time train to traverse the Waverley route. This was hauled by a Carlisle (Canal) A3, Diagram 1C. These were always kept in pristine condition. In post war years the Canal men did not do lodging turns, so it was a case of 'out and back' in the one day. It also meant that there was little variety in the Carlisle based locos - the same three or four being based at the Canal for a very long time. What variety there was came when Edinburgh (Haymarket) provided haulage for Waverley route expresses
09.58 T WARRINGTON CARLISLE 1
A meandering local which was more of a parcels train than anything. (??) Certainly a parcels train from the South was parked in No. 1 platform for much of the middle of the morning. It was not unusual to see new born calves with their heads protruding from sacks, waiting to be loaded for onward transportation - or perhaps to be collected, so also day old chicks chirping in their boxes..
09.58 T GLASGOW (CENTRAL) CARLISLE 3/7
10.05 T GLASGOW(ST ENOCH) CARLISLE 3/7
10.10 T EDINBURGH (WAV) CARLISLE 8

In quick succession these three locals arrived from the North. Two of the three would use the bay platforms 7 and eight, and the third would probably use the through platform as there was an important express coming shortly.

10.19A 10.21D GLASGOW CEN EUSTON 4

The Caledonian, the crack Up train of the day. In steam days this was always hauled by a Duchess. As originally scheduled the whole journey took 6 3/4 hrs, 15 minutes slower than the Coronation Scott of pre - war years, but the same amount quicker than the Royal Scot. In the original timetable for this train it arrived at Carlisle at 10.17 and departed two minutes later. By 1963 the West Coat electrification work had started and was affecting timetables, especially South of Crewe. The scheduled arrival time had been eased to 15.40 into Euston, compared with 15.15 at the outset. On the occasion I used the train we were in London by 15.13! this train was hauled throughout by the one locomotive, however its trailing load was limited to 8 coaches - the Coronation Scot had nine and the Royal Scot sometimes hauled thirteen, fourteen or even fifteen coaches!

11.03 T PENRITH (EX WORKINGTON) CARLISLE 1/3

This train, starting from Workington had followed the Cockermouth, Keswick and Penrith Railway route through the Fells, along Bassenthwaite Lake, through the gorge of the River Greta and joined the WCML just South of Penrith, for the final stroll to the Citadel. As there were severe weight restrictions on the CKPR, the locomotives were always light weight - 'Cauliflowers' giving way to Mickey Mouse 2-6-0 BR Standards - these even pulled part of the grandly named Lakes Express, from Euston to Barrow, Windermere and Keswick, with the lightweights taking over at Penrith.

11.26A 11.32D GLASGOW S ENOCH S PANCRAS 4

The Thames - Clyde Express. This is one of the four main day time expresses to use the Midland route. There would be a locomotive change at Carlisle - the ex Midland trains used Platform 4. The outgoing locomotive would be a Royal Scot - Duchesses were hardly ever used on the Midland route from Carlisle - except after 1968!

11.27 A GLASGOW/EDINBURGH MANCHESTER/L'POOL 3
11.30 D GLASGOW/EDINBURGH MANCHESTER/L'POOL 3
11.27A 11.32D GLASGOW/EDINBURGH MANCHESTER/LIVERPOOL 1 / 3

Within the allotted three minutes the fireman was like to put in the bag for a tender top up. This service had two points of origin and two destinations. Depending on the year the train could be remarshalled at Carstairs, Symington, Carlisle or Preston in 1963 this was done at Preston and Carstairs. The locos. used would often be Jubilees.

11.49A 11.51D GLASGOW CENTRAL EUSTON 4
The Royal Scot (UP).On some Summer public timetables the Royal Scot was officially non - stop. However, the reality was that there would be a crew change at Carlisle even if there was no station stop. The Up train changed crew beside Upperby shed. In Winter on some timetables there was a change of engines at Carlisle - giving a longer stop. In post war steam days the motive power was almost always a Duchess, although the diesels 10000 and 10001 worked the train in tandem in the late forties. The Southern Region diesels, 10201 and 10202 also were used on this train. The more powerful 10203 hauled the train on its own.. At the beginning of the Diesel era, English Electric Type 4 (Class 40) locomotives would be the normal motive power.

12.00 - 16.00

12.09A 12.17D GLASGOW/EDINBURGH B'HAM/PLYMOUTH 3 / 4

Another train from two points of origin and with two destinations. The time allowed at the Citadel allowed for a locomotive change. From photographs, rather than memory, in steam days there could be anything used from a Duchess or Princess Royal, down to a Jubilee. The Pacifics would be capable of a through run from Birmingham to Glasgow (about 298 miles) but it would be well beyond the range of a Jubilee. According to Peter Johnson, Birmingham sheds were light on Pacific allocations!

12.17A 12.24D MANCHESTER/L'POOL GLASGOW/EDINBURGH 1/3
The train scheduled fifty minutes earlier was sharp for arrival and departure, but so this. Clearly time was allowed for an engine change. Both incoming and outgoing would be likely to be Jubilees or their BR power equivalent. Kingmoor would of course provide the outgoing locomotive, whereas the locomotive which had been relieved would run back to the Upperby shed.
12.42A 12.51D EDINBURGH WAVERLEY S PANCRAS 4
The WaverleY (UP). With full dieselisation this would normally be hauled by a Peak (Cl 44 - 46). In later years the Waverley portion was attached to the Thames Clyde portion to form one train forward from Carlisle. In classic steam days the Up Waverley would arrive behind a Canal A3, Diagram 1A (return working of a night time freight) and would be replaced by a Scot. Until 1960 (apart from a significant interval from 1936 to 1943), Durranhil was the shed providing 'Midland' route locomotives (other than those returning to 'base' in Leeds. However, with the arrival of Deltics on the East Coast Main Line, many A3's were cascaded to Leeds, and provided through power to Glasgow and Edinburgh. Durranhill finally closed in 1959.
12.43D 12.51D LEEDS GLASGOW S ENOCH 3

Another working with time for a loco change. Post Groupings this would be provided by Kingmoor and would likely be a Jubilee. In pre war years some trains from Leeds were split at the Citadel, one portion heading for St Enoch and the other by the Waverley route to Edinburgh. The balancing reverse workings amalgamated at Carlisle for the onward journey to Leeds.

12.38A 12.52D PERTH EUSTON 3 / 4

A very leisurely stop. It is almost 450 miles from Euston to Perth and so was beyond the range of any steam locomotive. Carlisle was the obvious best point to change engines with Shap and Beattock to the South and North Respectively, whereas Crewe, at 158 miles from Euston had relatively easy Up running but very hard Down running on this service. The power would usually be a Duchess or a Princess Royal - although Scots, Jubilees and even Black Fives have been captured on camera by Treacy - especially North of Carlisle. Sometimes a crew change would be effected at Crewe.

13.15A 13.25D CREWE PERTH 1
As can be deduced from the previous entry, it was nigh on three hundred miles from Crewe to Perth. This train was the first of the day to go so far North, being almost two and a half hours ahead of that from Euston. The timing at the Citadel allowed for a loco change, however this was normally a through working by a Crewe (North) Pacific - often a Princess Royal. According to the shed allocation for Kingmoor in 1950 (see Robinson's appendices), Kingmoor had no allocated Pacifics. This means that changed Pacifics taking out the Down trains had brought in up trains earlier in the day or previous day. Nowadays there are no trains from the West Coast direct to Perth, it is a case of Change at Edinburgh Haymarket, or change stations at Glasgow from Central to Queen St!
13.28 T LANGHOLM CARLISLE

7 / 8
Langholm was the terminus of a short branch off the Waverley route. Fourteen miles from Carlisle lay Riddings - the 'change trains' station for Langholm. The third station up the line, seven miles on was Langholm. Langholm rejoiced in five trains a day from Riddings of which three originated at the Citadel. Four trains returned. Prior to WW2 the Sentinel steam railcar 'Nettle' was used on this branch, as well as being deployed on other LNER local trains. However, for much of the time steam locomotives were used - the J39's being typical. Unfortunately for the crews there was no turntable at Langholm, only a run around. This meant that the return journey to Riddings, or worse still to Carlisle, was tender first. The conditions must have been appalling on the footplate when driving into the teeth of a Sou'west rain storm in the depths of Winter. I am sure that the crews were more than thankful when BR standard class locos with their better crew accommodation replaced the LNER stock.
14.08 T NEWCASTLE CARLISLE 5 (6)
From a spotters point of view this one of the best trains of the day to come off the Newcastle line. Its glory lay in the unpredictability of the incoming loco. It could be anything , even the odd A3 thrown in. The reason for this was the train drew its motive power from the Newcastle sheds, and in some cases it was shed visitors that were used for the turn rather than shed allocated stock, From reliable memory there were Hunts, Footballers, B1's, V2's, V3's. Not all were named, but it was good to cop a new one from this train. The loco uncoupled, went on to the Canal for fettling and turning, then returned to the Citadel to head the 15.59 return working.
15.10A 15.12D EUSTON GLASGOW CENTRAL 1

This was the first day time train of the day to reach Carlisle from London. As in the UP train, the power was always top class, and it needed to be in first class condition, with its heavy load and running unchanged for the 403 miles from Euston to Glasgow (Central) As noted above engine changes took place on some Winter timetables, otherwise it was Camden or Polmadie locos that took the strain all the way!

15.30 - 23.35

15.32A 15.38D BIRMINGHAM GLASGOW CENTRAL 1
As noted above, Birmingham sheds were low on Pacifics. This meant that most trains were hauled by Scots of Jubilees in steam days. In theory a Pacific could make the whole journey without a change of loco, but not so with a Jubilee. The relieving loco from Kingmoor, might well be the same class as the incomer.
15.42A 15.48D EUSTON PERTH 1
With only four minutes between this arrival and the departure of the preceding train, it is easy to see why it must have been pretty hectic when trains were running late. Remember, before the station was resignalled c 1956 there were two dedicated platform, one for up and one for Down, with Pl 3 being bidrectional. Also through passenger traffic came in 'waves' with 11.30 hrs to 13.30 hrs being busy with a matching rush from 15.30 to to 16.45. As Treacy captured on film, there were often three locos in the sidings of platform 1 ready to relieve incoming trains. On occasions when the East Coast Main Line was blocked it must have been bedlam - although it was the spotters delight.
15.52A 15.59D S PANCRAS EDINBURGH WAVERLEY 3
The study of many of Treacy's many photographs of the North End of the Citadel, shows clearly operational inertia. Ex Midland route train heading Down used Pl 4 and loco exchanges for Waverley were always worked from this platform. This was worked by a Canal A3 Diagram 1A. See the previous note regarding congestion!
16.30A 16.38D MANCHESTER GLASGOW/EDINBURGH 1

The first of the two afternoon / evening trains from Manchester, in this case there is no Liverpool portion. As can be seen there is time for a locomotive change. As like as not Jubilee in and Jubilee out.

16.37A 16.45D S PANCRAS GLASGOW S ENOCH 3
More recipe for congestion with both Down platforms occupied. The outgoing loco, from Kingmoor - like the previous description. It would be more likely be a Jubilee than a Scot unless it was a return working. As noted above Paciifcs were rare on the Sou'west.
17.50 T EUSTON CARLISLE 1 / 3

This is the balancing working of the 8.40 am for Carlisle to Euston. The train we are describing left Euston half an hour later than the Royal Scot and had dawdled its way to Carlisle, arriving after a journey of some seven hours twenty minutes for the 300 miles - an average of about 41 mph compared to even time for the Caledonian at its best. The first motorway section was opened it 1958, but it was the early sixties before motorways were significant for the West Coast. To average 30 mph by road was good going for the three hundred miles to London and 200 + to Birmingham, going through the centre of many industrial towns.

18.33A 18.45D GLASGOW (S ENOCH) LEEDS 4
18.35A 18.37D EUSTON GLASGOW (CENTRAL) 1 MID-DAY SCOT
18.38A 18.45D GLASGOW/ED'BURGH MANCHESTER/L'POOL 3
The evening busy period, the slightest delay meant that all three through platforms were occupied. As noted above the Mid - Day Scot changed engines at Crewe, so there is the minimal stop at Carlisle.
19.15A 19.22D MANCHESTER/L'POOL GLASGOW/EDINBURGH 1

A leisurely stop allowing for and engine exchange in steam workings.

20.05A 20.27D EUSTON PERTH 1

An inordinately long stopover in Carlisle, especially seeing that the train was not scheduled to arrive in Perth until 12.28 AM! As mentioned above, an engine change would take place.

20.50A 21.00D GLASGOW POSTAL EUSTON 4

Not shown on the Public Timetable for obvious reasons is the UP Postal (Travelling Post Office). These times are by observation. The train was usually hauled by a top grade Pacific. For many years it was possible to post a letter into the sorting coaches - literally 'the last post'.

21.08A 21.10D EUSTON GLASGOW CEN 1
The Caledonian Down. Having covered 299 miles from Euston, the loco has still another 102.5 miles to reach Glasgow Central. There would be a crew change at Carlisle.
21.16A 21.23D GLASGOW MARYLEBONE 4

The first night train, due to arrive at Marylebone at 5.35 AM. Sleeping Cars were attached at Carlisle (none mentioned from Glasgow). One portion of the weekday train went as far as Penzance in the Summer. The Saturday train went as far as Plymouth. If my memory serves be right, this train used to depart from Carlisle at about 20.35, with the Postal following it. I have also memories of an Aberdeen fish train running through the station between 20.30 and 21.30 - it was express freight for obvious reasons.

From 19.40 to 23.35 ten 'local' trains terminated at the Citadel and eight 'locals' set off, only the Midland route was without a local heading out into the dusk.

So it was on weekdays in the Autumn / Winter of 1963 - 64. A total of one hundred and seventy revenue earning movements - Arrivals, Departures, Starting or Terminating at Carlisle Citadel! The full timetable is available from the option TT63List

 

SECOND EDITION Completed 28 May 2001, minor amendments made up to November 2006.