The Rebel Flag

(first published in ‘Tales From The Woods’ #9)

(Comments to: Tony.Papard@btinternet.com)

(Link: http://worldflags101.com/other-flags/confederate-flag.aspx Interesting facts about the Confederate flag in this flag guide illustrating everything there is to know about the flags of the world including what a flag is, which flags are the most popular, as well as the significance of all the different flags of the world.)
 

Dixie (instrumental)               Click small flags to hear Jerry Lee Lewis                Daughters of Dixie

There has been a lot of controversy in the States recently over the Confederate or Rebel flag, with attempts to remove the emblem from the State flag of Mississippi and to stop the flag flying on official buildings thruout the South. In Europe and elsewhere the flag of the Confederacy is mainly associated with the musical heritage of the Southern States. It is to be seen at Rock’n’Roll, Rockabilly and Country music venues thruout the world. This is because it is the only symbol which identifies that heritage-rich geographical area of the United States which gave birth to jazz, the blues, rhythm and blues, soul, rock’n’roll, rockabilly and country music in its various forms.

No other area of the world has such a rich musical heritage, certainly not any other part of the United States. Even Chicago blues was performed by black musicians who had moved north from the Delta. Therefore to adopt the Stars and Stripes as the symbol of the Southern musical heritage would not be at all appropriate; you might as well use the blue and gold EU flag to represent the British cultural heritage.

Which brings us neatly to the Union Flag or Union Jack. Everything derogatory which is said about the Confederate flag also applies to the Union Jack. Both flags have a racist past and both are used today as symbols of racism by extreme rightwing political groups. The Union Flag flew over the worst excesses of racist colonialism, and has been adopted by the National Front, British National Party and other racist groups – does that mean the Union Jack should be consigned to the dustbin of history?

The American Civil War was a long time ago, even further back in history than the British Empire, which was only dismantled in the middle of the last century. The War Between The States was essentially about the right of States to secede from the Union rather than about the abolition of slavery. If the EU eventually becomes a sort of United States of Europe, we will still retain our national or state flags like the Union Jack to represent our cultural heritage. Similarly in the USA the people of the Southern States need a symbol to identify their heritage.

Many black people voted in the recent referendum to KEEP the Confederate symbol in the State flag of Mississippi, and this should be a lesson to over-zealous liberals. The Confederate flag should be seen as a symbol of both the black and white heritage of the Southern States. The repression of the blacks is part of this heritage, but so is the blues and other Southern black music which speaks of this suffering. Similarly country music speaks of the suffering of poor whites in this deprived area of the USA. Much of the South was devastated by Yankee Union troops in the Civil War, and the whole area was until recent times very poor and backward. Today cities like Dallas and Atlanta have really forged ahead and put the South on the map, but does that mean Southerners should deny their history, their heritage and hide their identity behind the anonymity of the Stars and Stripes?

If the Confederate flag’s racist history means it should never be flown again, then the same is true of the Union Jack. But the meanings of symbols change, and today many black people with ethnic links to the former colonies identify with the Union Flag and are proud to be British, the same as many Southerners, black and white, identify with the Confederate flag. These symbols should be seen in a positive light as representing overcoming slavery, colonialism and racism and moving towards a multi-ethnic community. Nowhere is this epitomized more than in the Southern States where white and black music was first fused together to create Rock’n’Roll, the Southern musical form which more than anything else helped to break down the barriers of segregation. Southerners can rightly be proud of using their music to break down racist barriers, and to many people thruout the world the Confederate flag is indeed a Rebel flag. It represents the rebellious Rock’n’Roll music which the Ku Klux Klan and other rightwing segregationists tried so hard to ban and destroy because it threatened segregation.

To me the Rebel flag represents Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl Perkins, Elvis Presley, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino and all the other Southern artists, black and white, who first smashed down the barriers between blacks and whites in the 1950s. Let’s be proud to wave the Rebel flag as representative of the multi-ethnic heritage of the Southern States, whose people, black and white, have seen so much suffering and progress over the last 100 years or so.

If slavery was the low point of the Southern heritage, the fusion of blues and country pioneered by Jimmy Rodgers, Hank Williams and others was undoubtedly the high point. To me and many others the Confederate flag is a positive symbol of the multicultural legacy the Southern States have given the world.

Tony Papard, 2001.

I like ur story about the rebel flags ......... it is all the truth...... but most people can't understand that!    e-mail me back

C.M.

Thanks for your email - I'll add it to the end of the article as a comment, using only your initials (let me know if you want me to put your full name).   While I'm not a nationalist by any means, it would be a great pity if flags which identify different countries, regions and cultures were completely replaced by bland flags such as the Stars and Stripes, the EU flag and the UN flag. These federal/international flags are great for representing the unity between states/countries, but local cultures must also be preserved. Why should the Southern States, which have contributed so much to music, be denied any flag identifying the culture of good old Dixie (which I've visited many times)?   Tony

tony,
i like your story. i never thought of it that way.  today my son and 5 other boys were asked not to wear the rebel flag shirts or draw them or talk about it at all or they would get suspended for 10 days.  these boys are 12yrs old.  they just like the rebel flag and the eagle.  they are so proud to be southern boys.  my son is not racist.  he has more loyal black friends than white.  i guess if they can take God out of everything they can take the south out of southern. what can we do. it is not fair.  i dont want to be racist or look like i am but i am very upset because that flag means as much to us as martin luther means to the black community. 

****

I love the story. It's all the truth. People should realize that it's not racist. but the people just won't listen. So let's keep it flying!

****

October 22, 2003 1:04 AM Subject: question of the rebel flag
dear tony my name is j.... n.....and my school has decided to not let us were rebel shirts or anything like that any more. and i was wondering if  there is anything i could possibaly do to change there mind. cause i believe what you have wrote up there. and i dont know what i should do. so please tell me. also why dont the blacks at my school like it.

Tony's reply:

I have heard stories like this before. I had an email from a mother whose sons were not allowed to wear anything with the Confederate flag on it to school, yet some of their best friends were black.   I'm afraid it's called 'political correctness', and in the case of the Rebel Flag what it means is that because it is not the flag of a legitimate country people think it's OK to ban it because of its racist connexions. Of course the British Union Flag and the St George flag of England have similar racist connexions, but because they are also flags of recognized nations they are acceptable.   If the Confederate States of America still existed and had long since banned slavery and segregation, its flag would be accepted even if racists like the KKK still used it. But because the Yankees won the Civil War (or the 'War of Northern Aggression' as I once heard it called in Tennessee) they think they can ban all symbols of the Confederacy in the name of political correctness.   All I can say is that outside the USA the Rebel Flag has been adopted as the symbol of the musical heritage of the South. I don't know what can be done to make the symbol more acceptable in USA. I once saw a button with the Rebel Flag and a black and white hand clasped together, but it was still considered 'unacceptable'. In UK black guys into Southern rock'n'roll wear the Rebel Flag. Perhaps if this ever happens in your country it will become acceptable.   I can only suggest you don't wear the Rebel Flag shirt to school, and when you do wear it you also wear some anti-racist symbol as well.   Tony Papard

******

Thank you for letting everyone know the real meaning of the confederate flag.  People of these times so much believe it to be a symbol of racism when it just shows that we are our own people and have our own heritage.  Many people need to understand that we have just as much right to have our own flag as anyone else. A.M.

******

The Guardian newspaper, Notes & Queries question: 'In the United States, several cars sport the Confederate flag as a bumper sticker. Does this mean the driver is a racist bigot?' Two replies were published on September 24th, 2003:

'"American by birth, southern by the grace of God, and a rebel by choice." Not only a T-shirt logo but a state of mind that has been around since the American civil war. When asked where they're from, an American southerner will tell you their state (Virginia in my case), and not the United States. There has always been antagonism between the north and south since well before the "Great Colonial Uprising of 1776". This animosity is quite similar to what you get here on either side of the Watford Gap. The civil war was fought over states' rights rather than slavery (as most people believe), and most of the Confederate troops came from families that did not own slaves. Scottish Nationalists would probably understand this as they want close ties with the rest of the UK but don't want to be controlled by London any more than a good southerner wants to be told what to do by Washington. We southerners have always been rebels. Just look at who wrote the Declaration of Independence and who led the troops in 1776 (T. Jefferson and G. Washington, both from Virginia). As far as being bigots, I worked on the political campaign of Doug Wilder, the first black state governor in the US, and I have always worn the Confederate flag on my jacket. By the way, George Bush is not a true southerner, but the descendant of a northern carpetbagger who is trying to do to Iraq the same thing that those scallywags did to the south after the civil war. - Craig Reynolds, Derby. UK.'

'In England, many vehicles sport Cross of George flags. Does this mean the driver is a skin-headed tatooed neo-Nazi football hooligan with a manual job, prone to mindles drunken violence? - Paulo Grattone, San Francisco, US.'

(My own contribution to this Guardian debate, a very brief summary of some of the points in my article The Rebel Flag, was not published by the newspaper. Another insight into how Southerners view the 'American Civil War' can be gleaned from the description of this war on the public address system of a Mississippi paddle steamer in Memphis, Tennessee. The war many Southerners refer to diplomatically as 'The War Between The States' was bluntly called 'The War of Northern Aggression' on this boat on the Mississippi River State Line between the Southern states of Arkansas and Tennessee.)

***

The thing that I can't understand in the town that I live in is that the Elementary School and the High School can wear the rebel flag. But it is the Middle School kids that cannot wear it. That to me doesn't make any sense. The school doesn't even have a good reason for the kids not being able to wear it. I would like for my kids to be able to wear their heritage just like the black kids get to wear thiers. If they are allowed to wear Malcolb X, then mine should be able to wear the rebel flag. It's a fight I have been not able to win though. But I'm not going to stop trying. The school just announced yesterday that they were going to have a black history club. So I am going to try to start up a history of the confederacy club. wish me luck. thanks for all your grreat words. J in the south. 

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Hey! I looked up this site hoping to find something to convince my friend that because I like the confederate flag, doesn't mean i'm racist. but instead I found much more. I believe in our flag for so many reasons and I wish she could see that. this site has helped. and whether or not she wants to admit it, the flag is just as much her heritage as it is mine. IF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG OFFENDS YOU, YOU NEED A HISTORY LESSON. thanx again for your help! IT MAKES ME SO MAD THAT WE CANT WEAR THEM TO SCHOOL 2! KH/TH

*****

I disagree with your story. The reason that I believe people over in European countries see the rebel flag as a symbol of our musical heritage is due to all of the southern country and rock musicians that have advertised it and NOT because of what it stands for. They are too far removed to really understand what it is all about. They would have to live in the South to feel the animosity about it.If we Southerners need a flag to identify with who we are, let's create a new flag that shows where we've been and where we're going, and that we're proud of our heritage, bur that is not extremely offensive to people. Taking the rebel flag out of schools and/or the public is in no way the same thing as taking God out of the pledge of allegiance. God stands for what is good and true and right for ALL people, where the rebel flag profoundly offends some. I teach at a school where a huge riot broke out which started with a white student wearing a rebel flag, and proclaiming to a black student what he understood was it's meaning, and trust me it was not of Southern heritage. So whatever you say the confederate flag does or does not stand for, the fact remains that whatever it stands for in pop culture, is how the majority of people are going to percieve it. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT into getting rid of just anything, because it offends a small group of people, but come on now. Can't we come up with something better to express our Southern pride rather than something that is deeply hurtful to people and causes disrest and RIOTS in schools? P.S. Most 12 year old who where rebel flags, do so not having ANY idea as to its meaning...If a child came to school wearing a swastika, even if he did not know what it stood for, and merely thought it was a "cool" symbol would we care? ...I think SOME people would be offended. If you want to wave the rebel flag, plaster it in YOUR home, etc....I don't care, but there is no place for ANYTHING in our schools that causes unrest and feelings of hatred, or confrontation.

Tony's reply:

Many thanks for your email, which I will post on the site after the article. Perhaps schools in the Deep South are not appropriate places to display the Rebel Flag, but symbols can change their meaning, that is what I was trying to say. The swastika was an Eastern symbol of good luck till the Nazis adopted it, reversed it and used it on their flag.   If anybody can design a new flag which represents the Southern heritage without the racist overtones that might work, but it would be very difficult to get people to accept it. I can't imagine British people accepting a new flag to replace the Union Jack, and in my father's country, Cyprus, the neutral Cypriot flag has never really been accepted - Greek and Turkish flags still fly in the two sectors of the island. Much better, I think, to 'reclaim' symbols/flags.   The Nazi swastika flag was slightly different - it was the flag of the National Socialist Party of Germany, which then became the flag of the Third Reich. It never had any historical/geographical association with Germany, anymore than the Soviet hammer and sickle flag had any historical/geographical associatian with the Russian empire. These flags are purely political. The Confederate Flag is not a political flag in this sense - it does not belong to one political party, but represents the thirteen Southern States which tried to break away from the Union, and which still have a separate cultural heritage from the rest of the USA.   Perhaps you should start a competition to design a new flag for the South which would be acceptable to everybody as a symbol of Southern history/heritage. Meanwhile, the Confederate Flag continues to represent rockabilly, rock'n'roll, Country music and other aspects of Southern heritage thruout the world.

*****

It is offensive because the KKK uses it openly and far right wing Nazi skinhead groups fly it along side of Swastikas and they use it to purposely offend. Sadly many use the US flag like the Union Jack in the UK during times of war saying it is to support our troops, but I believe it shows the level of extreme nationlism boiling to the surface ( sadly it brings out "love it or leave it" redneck types which most American are not). Here in the US if I flew it I know my friends especially Black and others would not associate with me any more. I personally consider it an American equivalent of a Nazi Flag. A new symbol of the south needs to be designed.

Tony's reply:

We have exactly the same trouble with the Union Jack, it is used by extreme rightwing and racist groups.   However I think it would be possible to design a new version of the flag. After all, the Confederate Flag was not always as it is currently depicted - I've seen earlier versions which looked quite different.   How about the same color scheme but with the stars in a circle in the center, or reversing the colors so dark blue is the background and the St Andrew's Cross is red. There must be endless variations, possibly incorporating some non-racist symbol such as clasped black and white hands (I once saw a button depicting the Confederate Flag with black and white hands clasped in the foreground).   However outside USA in the music world the racist associations with the Rebel Flag are not so obvious, and I have seen black music fans wearing it.   I will post your comments on the site after my article.

*****


    Tony,             today (05-04-04) I was suspended from my school because I choose not to take my flag down off of my truck. I put a mounting bracket on the back of my truck box, and I put a rebel flag on a post and flew it proud. I was told to take the flag down yesterday which I did. I then today took in a copy of you web site and went to school. I was told to take down the flag or I was going to be kicked out. I said that I was not going to take down the flag and I did not. I was suspended on no grounds of any rule.I am writing to you to let you and who ever else sees this to tell them not to give in and not to let some one take away you rights as an America. also I am not a crazy person and I don't want to be known as some one who is racist in any way. I am just a person that has alot of respect for my history, my civil rights, and most important my ancestors.   thank you for your time,  SD                                                                            

Tony repies:

Political correctness, as it is called, has gone mad in the USA I'm afraid. Banning geographical/historical flags is just one aspect of this. Insisting blind/short sighted people are called 'visually challenged', short people 'vertically challenged', etc., etc. are other aspects of this nonsense.   The Nazi swastika flag can be banned because it is a purely political flag with no geographical or historical connexions to Germany - it was simply designed for the National Socialist Party. I suppose the Soviet hammer and sickle flag can be put in the same category, though it was never racist in the same way as the Nazi one.   I don't much like the Israeli flag because of its racist overtones, or the Union Jack (British) flag for the same reason, but I wouldn't ban them. They are the flags of real geographical and historical entities, not just the flag of one political party. The Confederate Flag is the same and it should not be banned. However, as I wrote in a reply to another letter on my site, it could be redesigned. It has already had different designs in the past.   Perhaps someone should rearrange the colors and symbols on the Confederate Flag and make an updated version to represent Dixie's cultural heritage which is acceptable to all?   Meanwhile, I can only suggest displaying the Confederate Flag alongside some anti-racist symbol in the US to make clear the person displaying it is not a racist.  

*****

Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:21 AM Subject: HEY
THIS IS MK AND I GO TO KATHLEEN MIDDLE SCHOOL IN LAKELAND,FL AND TODAY I WAS TALKING WITH  SOME OF MY BLaCK FRIENDS AND THE WHITE DEAN WROTE ME UP BEC I GOT A TATTOO OF A REBEL FLAG ON MY ARM I REFUSE TO COVER IT UP AND MY BLACK FRIENDS SAID THAT THAT WAS WRONG WHAT SHOULD I DO?

Tony replies:

I work with a black woman and I now have to be careful not to wear the Rebel Flag around her. I don't know if an English-born black person would connect the Rebel Flag with black slavery in the CSA, or even if they'd know what the Rebel Flag was, but I can't afford to take any chances.   I think this is a shame, as the Rebel Flag means different things to different people, the same as the flag of Great Britain. To racists both are racists symbols, and unfortunately some black people see these flags in those terms too. I see the Rebel Flag as the symbol of rock'n'roll and the Southern musical heritage. It is not the same as a Nazi swastika, which is purely racist and political.   If I had a rebel flag tattoo I'd cover it up at work or anywhere where black people might take offense. Perhaps you should do the same. It is a pity, but 'political correctness' means we no longer have freedom of speech or freedom to display certain flags/symbols in case people misinterpret them.   The only other thing I can suggest is you have an anti-racist tattoo or button on display as well.

*****

our school recently banned the wearing of the confederate flag or anything that symbolizes it but they still let people wear FUBU clothes and the meaning is "for us by us" which seems fairly racial to me i am not racist but i honer the heritage of southern pride and music i just think that our school systems need to realize whats going on with everyone else and take care of bigger problems such as drugs   i liked you essay on what the rebel flag meant sincerely yours joseph p.

*****

Hey, what's goin on yall ya rednecks, i proud to say that i wear the Confederate flag just as much as you southerners.  I know that i'am not from the South but, i will still fly it high!  In our school the confederate flag is racist to many people and many people are mad because all of my buddies wear them.  I think that these people more less need a history lesson or two.  I have done a lot of research on the flag, and yes i have found that there were some times that it looked racist, but what the hell they need to get over it.  I thought that you story was a great story, and i love finding story about the confederate flag.  Well that all i have to say, but fly it high and maybe one day we will be able to support our flag as much as we fucking want!

*****

hey y'all...for the people who fly the stars and bars..should keep
flying...i was expelled from school for flying the colors on my truck....i
feel its not wrong to fly the colors..it's how i was rasied..and i shouldn't
have to remove the battle flag from my truck..they told me if i remove the
flag from my truck..and cover up the tattoo of the flag on my arm..i can
remain at school..what should i do tony?? i dont believe in taking the
colors down or covering them up!!!!born southern raised southern

keep flying them colors..woody from s.c.!!!!

Here in Europe it is rather different. Many people don't even recognize the
Rebel Flag, and most of those that do and display it are indicating their
love of rock'n'roll, Rockabilly, Country Music, etc. I've not heard of
anybody being expelled from school for wearing/displaying the flag, however
it seems to be a widespread practice in the United States.

Much as I believe this is 'political correctness' gone over the top, there
are places where I myself wouldn't display the flag. On my many trips to the
USA I was very nervous of wearing it, and I wouldn't wear it at work in
front of the black woman I work with in case she took offense.

I think this is very sad, but people make instant judgments and consider
anyone displaying the flag is a racist. This is not the case, as I tried to
argue in my article.

The only solution I can see is either NOT to display the flag in sensitive
situations, or to always display it alongside some non-racist symbol.

I agree with you that as a Southerner you should be able to display your
flag anywhere. If the South had won the war between the States, the
Confederate flag would now be a universally recognized flag flying in the
UN, its historical connexions with black slavery and racism long forgotten.
The British flag is largely seen today as the symbol of a multicultural UK,
not the racist flag of a Colonial Empire which it once was.

The sole reason people are against the CSA flag is because the Yankees won
the war between the States, and the abolition of slavery, desegregation,
etc. took place officially under the Stars and Stripes rather than under the
Stars and Bars. But in reality the latter is the geographical flag of Dixie
and therefore is not a political flag like the old Soviet hammer and sickle
flag or the Nazi swastika flag.

I am not an expert on the school system in the USA, but it would seem wise
not to display the flag at school if it means you are expelled.

In the long term it may be necessary to slightly re-design the flag to make
it universally acceptable. It has, after all, had many different designs in
the past.

*****
There is much talk about displaying the flag with a non-racist symbol. What are some suggestions for this non-racist symbol?  

I am not an expert on non-racist symbols in the USA, or even UK. Here it used to be a button in black and white with the initials AA for anti-apartheid in the days of apartheid South Africa.   I've also seen a button with clasped black and white hands against the background of the Confederate Flag. This is possibly the basis for a redesigned flag.   I should imagine wearing the Rebel Flag alongside a Martin Luther King button might at least confuse people and make them think again about the real meaning of the Dixie flag.   As for re-designing the flag itself, I think that should be left to the people of Dixie themselves, black and white and all other races together coming up with an acceptable compromise. It could contain the elements of the existing Dixie flag - colors, stars within bars - and incorporate something to represent non-white races and integration.   In UK non-racists are 'reclaiming' the Union Flag of UK and the St George flag of England from the racists. It seems, however, a lot of people in USA are not prepared to recalim the Dixie flag as it stands. It needs to be accepted by all races, so perhaps some slight redesigning is necessary.   South Africa redesigned its flag post-apartheid, but nobody has bothered to update the Dixie flag since the war between the States, or since de-segregation. The Stars and Stripes do NOT in any way represent Dixie or its unique culture, anymore than the EU flag represents Britain and our culture.    A Dixie flag is needed for all its people, black, white, Hispanic, Native American, etc..

*****

hi tony
YES I AGREE WITH YOU IN YOUR POINTS WITH THE REBEL FLAG, BUT THERE ARE SOME POINTS I DO NOT AGREE WITH AT ALL. I AM A PROUD REDNECK IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD. AND MY FLAG WHICH IS THE REBEL FLAG MEANS SO MUCH MORE TO ME THAN A BUNCH OF KIDS WEARING IT AROUND TO OFFEND PEOPLE. I AM NOT A RACIST BY ANY MEANS. I AM BLACK. I WEAR THIS FLAG BECAUSE I AM FROM WAYCROSS, GEORGIA THAT IS . MY FAMILY WORKS A FARM EVERY DAY SEVEN DAYS A WEEK 365 DAYS A YEAR WITH NO TIME  FOR NONSENSE. I HAVE NEVER FOUND THIS FLAG TO BE SOMETHING I SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF. THE WAY MY GREAT, GREAT PAPPA SAID IT'S JUST AS MUCH A PART OF US AS IT IS TO THEM. SO IF ANY ONE WANTS TO DEBATE ON THIS SYMBOL WHICH CALLING IT A SYMBOL MAKES ME MAD. I WILL ANYTIME. I AM HERE TO STAY AND THE REBEL FLAG SAYS SO. SO EVERYONE STOP AND THINK WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU AND WHY? FLY IT HIGH AND PROUDLY EVERYONE. AND FOR UNION JACK DONT BUT MY FLAG IN THE SAME . ITS NOT THE SAME - TT 
                                                         

Well I don't quite understand what you don't agree with, or what your point is about the Union Jack. But you seem to be agreeing with everything I said in the article, i.e. that the Rebel Flag represents all people of the South and their culture, whatever their race. As your great grandfather or whoever said 'it is just as much part of us as it is of them'. I don't agree with people wearing this flag, the Union Jack or any other flag just to offend people of another race.   If a lot of black people agree with you it is time they spoke out and claimed the flag as part of their heritage. Flags only become racist if people abandon them to the racists.   The Union Jack represents all races in Britain, the St George flag represents all races in England, the Rebel flag should represent all races Dixie. If it doesn't, modify it so it does. Stick a logo of Martin Luther King on it, a native American symbol and a Hispanic symbol as well if you like, but I see nothing wrong with it as it is. Tony.

*****

Hi my name is K. J., and I am doing a speech over the Rebel Flag. I was wondering if you could give me any links or book names to help me. I am proud of Southeren Herritage, and wearing The Rebel Flag with PRIDE. I am not a racist and never will be. I want my class to understand what the Rebel Flag means and just because so many hate groups use it doesn't mean it's a racist symbol. I think the KKK and Nazis disgrace the flag and everything it means. I am doing this for a college class and yes there are Black people in my class, I am lucky that my teacher is giving me the chance to explain such a misleading topic.

Sorry, I've been away on holiday and only just read your email. I'm afraid I don't have any links/book titles about the Rebel Flag, I just wrote what I felt from a European roots music fan perspective. But you are welcome to use anything from my article or the comments at the end in your speech.

*****

TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE THE REBEL FLAG DOES NOT REPRESENT PREJUDICE. THAT'S LIKE DISPLAYING THE NAZI FLAG AND SAYING IT'S WEST GERMAN PRIDE NOT IGNORANCE. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, THE WAR WAS A LONG TIME AGO, 0UT THERE ARE PEOPLE STILL ALIVE THAT HAVE DEALT WITH PEOPLE THAT DON'T FEEL LIKE YOU AND I DO. I'M A COLORBLIND SKINHEAD OUT OF FT LAUDERDALE. I DEAL WITH THE SAME THINGS AS YOU, ALMOST. THE DIFF IS , SKINHEAD IS NON-RACIST , FIRST FOUNDED IN JAMAICA AND BRITAIN, AS A WORKING CLASS WAY OF LIFE. BUT THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT GET TV TIME ARE THE BONEHEADS. NAZIS. SO IT MAKES IT REAL HARD ON THE REST OF US. BUT IT WAS OURS FIRST. THE REBEL FLAG HAS , AND ALWAYS WILL IN MOST PEOPLES EYES , STAND FOR PREJUDICE. I THINK YOU SHOULD CHANGE IT. TO WHAT I'M NOT SURE. THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE UP TO THE PEOPLE THAT WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW, I'M NOT A RACIST ASSHOLE. BUT MAKE IT YOUR OWN. DON'T TAKE SOMETHING ELSE AND TRY TO GIVE IT A NEW DEFINITION. IT WON'T WORK. AND THE THING ABOUT MALCOM X  AND THE MATIN LUTHER KING SHIRTS, YOU CAN'T COMPARE THEM W/THE CONFEDERATE FLAG. ONE STANDS FOR PREJUDICE AND THE OTHERS DON'T. BUT HEY, IF YOUR SMART ENOUGH TO START THIS WEB SITE AND LET PEOPLE KNOW YOU ARE NOT PREJUDICE, I'M SURE YOU WILL FIND A WAY TO CHANGE THE FLAG SO YOU CAN CALL IT YOUR OWN. AND IF IT PUTS OUT THE RIGHT MESSAGE YOU MIGHT FIND ME WEARING IT.     STOMP RACISM, COLORBLIND SKINHEAD, B.C., REPING SOUTH FLORIDA. FROM WPB TO MIAMI.  

Many thanks for your email. It does seem, after all the comments I've received, that the Rebel Flag is perceived quite differently in USA to elsewhere in the world. Outside USA it is universally used by rock'n'roll fans. People were even wearing Rebel Flag headscarves during Little Richard's performance at the Eddie Cochran Weekender in Chippenham, England (where Eddie was killed in a car crash in 1960). In Europe and Asia, etc. the Rebel Flag means rock'n'roll, the music which helped break down segregation.  It is up to Southerners, black and white, to devise a new flag for Dixie, or make the old one politically correct.   Personally, I think there is nothing wrong with the flag as it stands. If the South had won the war it would now be a legitimate flag of the UN, like the Union Jack. Both flags have a racist history. The Confederate States of America, if they existed today, would long ago have abolished slavery, and would be de-segregated. Racists would still use the Rebel Flag to promote their views, as racists still use the Union Jack and the English flag of St George, but as it would be the legitimate flag of a recognized UN country it would be accepted by everyone as the flag of the CSA.   The Nazi swastika flag and the Soviet hammer and sickle flag are different - they are purely political flags. The Nazi one was designed for the National Socialist (Nazi) Party of Germany, and the hammer and sickle one for the Soviet Communist Party. They have no connection with historical Germany or Russia, and both these countries have now reverted to their traditional tricolor flags.   The Confederate Flag was always a geographical one. It has become associated with slavery only because the CSA ceased to exist at that time in history.   Design a new flag by all means, but the South needs a flag which represents its unique culture and history. If blacks feel they cannot claim the current flag, modify it or design a new one. It is not up to Europeans to do it for you.

(A lengthy correspondence followed with this person, who mistakenly assumed I lived in the USA. He maintained that the CSA flag would always be unacceptable because of its racist history, and because it is still used by racists. The correspondence ended as follows:)

From me to BC:

I think we must agree to differ here, but I should explain I AM in England, born in London of an English mother and Greek-Cypriot father.   You may well not want a symbol to represent Southern heritage, but many others do. We rock'n'roll and Country fans in Europe, for example, don't idenitfy particularly with the Stars and Stripes because all the music we like came out of Dixie. All that came out of the rest of the USA was either from musicians who moved there from the South or were influenced by Southern music - such as Chicago blues musicians or Yankees like Bill Haley who got into Western Swing, then picked up on Rhythm'n'Blues by the likes of Big Joe Turner.   The sole exception was probably the Doo-Wop groups of the 1950s like The Coasters, Penguins, etc. Many of these came from and were recorded in places like New York.   I'll just finish by saying the Union Jack is probably one of the most racist flags in the world historically. It for years represented the British Empire which subjugated colonies all around the world, had concentration camps in India, enslaved and killed people thruout the Empire in order to maintain its racist white rule. If we're going to ban the CSA flag, let's ban ALL flags with a racist history and re-design them all. Perhaps that is the answer.

To which he replied:

 I DONT MIND A SOUTHERN HERITAGE FLAG. YOU ARE RIGHT. A LOT OF OUR HERITAGE , MOST OF IT, IS FROM THE SOUTH. BUT PEOPLE HERE IN THE U.S. CAN'T LET THE PAST GO. 'CAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE THAT STILL USE IT AS A RACIST SYMBOL. SAYING THINGS LIKE, THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN, AND YOU NIGGERS WILL BE SORRY. THERE ARE STILL TOWNS HERE IN THE U.S. THAT HAVE SIGNS SAYING, IF YOU'RE BLACK DON'T LET THE SUN SET ON YOUR HEAD IN THIS TOWN. THOSE OFF US THAT ARE TRYING TO CHANGE IT CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH WHEN PEOPLE OUT THERE  STILL RAISE THERE KIDS TO BE AS RACIST AS THEY ARE. TONY, I LOVE WHAT THE WEB SITE STANDS FOR. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. THE ONLY WAY WE WILL STOP RACISM IN THE U.S. IS WITH THE HELP OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

*****

hey tony my school is going through a lot right now People are putting the rebel flag in a position that it is not ment to be in. they are taking the rebel flag and turning it in to something that it is not. To me the rebel flag is a symbol to both the blacks and the whites that should not be taken out of proportion. and it has been throughout the years. The people at my school take it as offiensive and are now threatening to do something about it. I wish that there was a way that I could prove to them that it means just asmuch to them as it  does us. And make them realize it. Well please email me back and let me know  what you have to say about this email thanks                                  L

L, thanks for your email. I have received many similar ones from
schools in the USA.

As I wrote in my article, racists misuse many national flags and try to
present them as symbols of their beliefs. This includes the Stars and
Stripes, the British Union Jack, the English flag of St George and the
French Tricolor. Racists also use the Stars and Bars. The only difference is the Rebel Flag is NOT recognized as a national flag, so it is much easier to try to ban it.

England is not an independent country, but it does have a flag - the St
George flag, which is used at football matches, and also by racists. The Confederate States of America had a flag, the Rebel Flag, but the difference is England is recognized as a country within the United Kingdom. The CSA is NOT recognized as a country within the USA. Therefore it is easy to say you don't need the CSA flag, you've got the Stars and Stripes.

But there are many areas in the world which have their own flags, which are not recognized as countries at the present time. These flags should not be banned in my opinion.

The Rebel Flag is more problematic because at the time the CSA ceased to exist, after the war between the States, slavery was a big issue. The North under Lincoln wanted to abolish it, the South claimed independence and said the Yankees had no right to dictate what the South did about slavery or anything else.

The debate around the flag has therefore become polarized (frozen) around this out-of-date issue.

Many Southern blacks feel they cannot claim the flag as their own because of this history, and because racists still misuse it as you describe.

I feel Southern blacks SHOULD claim it as their own. It should not be left to the racists and white supremists to claim it as their own flag. It is the geographical and historical flag of Dixie, of its people of all races - black, white, Hispanic, Native American, Oriental, etc.

Gays claimed the pink triangle once used by the Nazis in Germany to single them out for the concentration camps and death. We also claimed the word 'queer' once used soley as a term of abuse. I see no reason why Southern blacks can't similarly claim the Dixie flag, then it would no longer be seen as a racist symbol.

I have already given similar suggestions in my comments to others - display it alongside an anti-racist symbol, blacks should adopt it as a symbol of their Southern pride, or else it should be redesigned so they CAN accept it.

I can't really add any more, except to say Dixie needs a flag, a symbol if its heritage, and if it is not to be the present Rebel Flag then that needs redesigning.

Talk to blacks in your school about what symbol would be acceptable to them to represent the multi-cultural Southern heritage, and try to come up with a compromise.

That is the only way forward I can see in this endless debate. South Africa completely redesigned its flag after the fall of the apartheid regime, perhaps Dixie has to do the same if feelings still run so high, but the danger is the redesigned flag, if totally different from the old one, would not be accepted by whites.

****

I am a 15 year old male who would just like to thank you because, i have alot of friends that think the rebel flag is just a symbol of hate. It saddens me to think that because of people like my friends the rebel flag will forever be thought of as racist. i researched for awhile and found only 4 web sites that talk about the history of the rebel flag and how slavery was a very small part of the civil war, but even out of just those few web sites i am happy to see that i am not the only one that knows the truth about the rebel flag. I my self do not believe in slavery and i would never like to see it come back. I dont think that the rebel flag should be seen as a racist symbol. I have many african american friends. Thank you again for the helpful insight on the history of the rebebl flag.   THANK YOU                                Sincerly Yours                                         Southern and Proud

*****

Hi Tony my name is M...., I'm 14 years old. I don't live in the South but where I live the rebel flag is a big thing. We are not allowed to wear the rebel flag shirts to school. I have friends that don't even know what the rebel flag is. I have tried to tell  them what the rebel flag is but they don't listen. They have told me that they want to know what the rebel flag is but don't listen when I tell them .  When we are heard talking about the rebel flag we get in a lot of trouble.

Please e-mail me back

Many thanks for your email. As you will see from the Comments, I get an awful lot of emails like yours. I don't know what else to say, I've said it all in my previous replies.   The Rebel Flag is simply the geographical and historical flag of the South, that's it. It can't be banned. It once represented the slave-owning Confederate States of America - so what? So did the Yankee Stars and Stripes when they had slaves, and the Union Jack when we had slaves and a whole Empire of colonies. We've all moved on since then, but the Rebel Flag or Stars and Bars is still the legitimate emblem of the Southern States - there is no other flag for this geographical area and its culture.   My advice - don't wear it to school or in areas/situations where it will cause offense. Try to get Southern blacks to claim the flag as their own. If necessary the flag must be slightly re-designed to make it acceptable to all races.   We in Europe and elsewhere still display it as the symbol of Southern musical culture, especially rock'n'roll which helped to break down segregation. This makes it a symbol of anti-racism everywhere in the world except America, in my opinion.  

*****

We can wear them to school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At New London Choice Middle School! LONG LIVE THE REBEL FLAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HATE YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*****

Further Comment from Tony:

I'm fed up with all these attempts to ban the Rebel Flag. We all know that it was once the flag of a slave-owning, racist Confederate States of America, but get over it. The Stars and Stripes was once the flag of a slave-owning, racist United States of America, and similarly for the British Union Jack and a lot of other flags. It is high time Southern blacks claimed the Dixie flag for their own, much as gays claimed the Nazi pink triangle symbol as their own. There has just been another Presidential election in the USA (November 2nd, 2004). Every Southern State, thanks largely to the white vote, went Republican, yet that was the party of Abraham Lincoln. If Southern whites can get over their prejudices and claim for their own theYankee party which destroyed much of the beautiful South in the 'War of Northern Aggression', why can't Southern blacks lay claim to the Dixie flag and make it their own? This is the only way it will become less attractive to racist groups like the KKK. I really don't see why the Dixie flag should be re-designed - it really contains nothing that isn't already in the Stars and Stripes (except the St Andrew's Cross, also in the flag of Scotland and in the Union Jack) - red, white and blue with white stars on a blue background, what's racist about that?

Someone emailed me saying why don't I put a Rebel Flag graphic on this site? If someone could tell me how to do it I would. In fact none of the articles on this site have pictures or graphics as nobody has been able to tell me, a mere amateur at Websites, how to do it. My article on Jerry Lee Lewis, for instance, originally had photos with captions, but the photos all disappeared as soon as I tried to post the article on this Website.

*****
I ran on to your site as I was looking up some rebel flag graphics... I read the part where you said you can't wear Rebel clothing to school... That is wrong. We were at a celebration in our home town and at that celebration there was a gentleman that sold shirts with rebel graphics on it. And my oldest son wanted one and his dad told him he couldn't wear it to school. And the gentleman told him look here son if I give you this shirt with these rebel graphics on it will you wear it to school.? My son said "give me a shirt"? And the gentleman said yes I will give it to you free of charge but you have to wear it to school. And my son said once again I can't wear this shirt to school and he said why not. My son said they will make me turn it wrong side out or call my parents to pick me up and take me home to change the shirt. The gentlelman said son you wear this shirt to school and if they make you wear it wrong side out or call your parents you call this number and they will start a law suit for freedom of speach and discrimination. That is your right to wear that and display the honor of the civil war. So to you I will send you the numbers and names to contact and you wear that clothing to school and if anyone says anything to you about it or makes you change it etc...... you call that number he is an attorney and you will have a suit against the school....... Hope i was of some help... Thanks for reading... Kelly       Dave Easterling 405-329-5148 405-579-4829 405-850-5284

That is tremendous, and quite right. How dare they try to ban a geographical/historical flag which represents a people and its culture. As I've said many times before on this Forum, it is up to all Southerners, black and white, to reclaim the Dixie flag as their own. If it is shunned/banned it will become the sole symbol of the KKK and other racist groups.

*****

Ya'll are all crazy.  Let people think what they want.  Just because they think it is offensive doesn't mean it has to be.  If you actually knew, when the South first split up we had a flag very close to the North's and then they changed it, and changed it, and changed it.  Most of us rednecks, such as myself, really don't care what the blacks think about the flag because they don't know the true meaning.  If they do know the true meaning then they would understand our love for our heritage.  And I go to a majority black school and I wear rebel shirts all the time and no one cares because they know if they mess with me, I have black friends that will back me up because they know the real story behind the confederate flag.  If they didn't I'm sure they would be on the other side.  I live in Alabama where there are a lot of us rednecks but majority white folks acting black, and blacks.  I just don't understand why everyone must get offended.  The blacks should be mad at their ancestors, not us, because it was their ancestors that sold them into slavery.  It wasn't us that went over there and took them off their land.  And if you think I'm wrong, then just look it up and see for yourself.  I'm part German, so it would offend me if I saw Jews burning my flag, but just because I'm part German and look just like Hitler had all his Nazi's to look, doesn't mean that I'm just as bad as him.  I mean, not all blacks think of this flag as racist, though most of them do, most of the blacks fought for the South in the Civil War.  And now the biggest movement of blacks is happenning, and guess where they are moving.  THE SOUTH.  And we are allowed to wear Rebel shirts in school and I do.  Most people don't like me wearing them but I tell them to get over it because, like my shirt says, it is HERITAGE...NOT HATE.   Please post this on your website for people to read, I will tell you later how to add graphics.   Thanks, bye.

Many thanx. Will post your contribution. I really don't know how the PC brigade got away with changing the state flag of Georgia, and then had the audacity to try to remove the Rebel Flag from the state flag of Mississippi. Why don't they concentrate their energies on getting the British colonial Union Jack removed from the state flag of Hawaii? That would make more sense, since it is an alien flag, nothing to do with the heritage of the Hawaiian Islands, just a relic of British imperialism.

*****

> Hey, I have just recently came upon your website looking up the history of
> the rebel flag. I'm a 15 year old female and I support the good of what the
> rebel flag stands for. As so many before me have said you're not allowed to
> wear rebel flag clothing to school. I used to go to a school where the
> majority of kids were African American... They were allowed to wear Malcom X
> clothing to school with nothing said. I would be wearing my rebel flag shirt
> standing right next to the X person and I would be told to go to the
> bathroom to change my shirt inside outwards. We even had a heated debate
> about why I thought this wasn't fair. Their arguments were that we were
> racist when we wore that shirt because that was "The KKK's Flag". I knew the
> history of the flag and knew that it even helped "Black" people. They still
> wouldn't listen. Point being I think all of us that support the rebel flag
> should stand up and let the *TRUE* history show through and that it being a
> KKK symbol is a bad representation. It may be a struggle but I think we owe
> it to our fore fathers to support what so many has died for! -Michelle
>

Thanks for this. I am working on getting a specially designed logo added to the Webpage, which includes the Stars'n'Bars and Stars'n'Stripes.

*****

Tony I liked ur thingy about the flag. I just wanted to say that THE FLAG RULES go rebels!!!!!! T.Y.

*****

 Tony,
 
 Thank you for your website.  It is very informational and I think everyone in the country should read it.  At my school we are also not allowed to wear to rebel flag on any clothing.  A girl had some shirts made up that had different sayings on them, such as "You can make me change my shirt but you can't make me change my mind.  CSA Forever."  I really thought this was brave and was proud of her for doing it.  People preach about tolerance and respect, but it has a double standard.  Tolerance and respect ONLY FOR THEM.  They think they shouldn't have to tolerate and
 respect us even though we do for them.  It is just not right.  Thank you again for your website.
 
 J. R.
 Tennessee
 

Many thanx, glad you liked the Webpage. This PC nonsense has gone too far. It is 'their' flag as well - that is what I am saying. The Dixie flag represents ALL the people of the South, and instead of rejecting it blacks should claim it for their own along with whites, native Americans, Hispanics - all the great people who hail from or live in the South and have given so much musically, and in other ways, to the world.

 
Best wishes, Tony

*****

I think that the conversation that has come out of this essay is amazing and extremely interesting, it just goes to show that keeping an open mind is so important and finding a solution for everyone is what we all want in the end. I have to say that here in Canada definately there are too many things in the mass media (we only watch American TV) that portray the "South" as a horrible redneck racist place where people carry guns and the rebel flag is something very racist that the Southerners use because they used to have slavery...since we're so innocent and we've NEVER had slavery in Canada, as if we don't have racism at all! Right! There are things to work on everywhere and much of it is pretty much the same issues! But each individual is so different as exemplified by the various comments on this web page and education and finding common goodness is so important and I don't have a solution to offer but I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone for a good read and the good thoughts! - DM - Calgary, Alberta
 

Hi D,

 
Like you I have been amazed at the response to this little article originally published in a British amateur roots magazine with a circulation of under 100 people. It has had more responses than any other article on my site. The flag in question certainly seems to stir up a lot of strong feelings, but that would be the case of ANYTHING someone tries to ban.
 
Like you I don't know the answer. I feel Southern blacks should 'claim' the flag as their own, but the alternative would be some redesigning. Meanwhile here in Europe the flag as it stands has become firmly entrenched with rock'n'roll/rockabilly music and I doubt this will ever change.
 
Tony

*****

Hi Tony. I am a believer in the rebel flag. I am from Lake County, Florida where they will not allow the kids to wear the shirts. We have been to the school several times last year and this year and on  Jan-5-05 we went to the school and told them to show us in the hand book where rebel flags could not be worn and he could not. He said it was by principal choice. I said that's a bunch of bull. Well anyway we also found out he is married to a black women so figure that's why. He has his reason and I do not believe him or his choices. Anyway I want to file a discrimination law against the school. It has nothing to do with slavery like they say it is. Someone needs to teach the school what it is all about. They do nothing with the blacks or Hispanics or what ever it may be; it is always the South and I am over it. Going to have my child go to school take pic of all the kids in their rebel shirts and look for the Malcom X shirts as well, then I am going to go in front of the school board and make my choice and my freedom of speech. Do you have any suggestions on how I can go about this? The best way I know how, I am thinking about trying to get people to sing for our rights to wear our shirts. They teach (our rights) in school so the school is teaching them they cannot wear what they learn in school (is their right.) How stupid is that? Well this all for now. Thanks a bunch. K. H.. Let that rebel flag fly high and proud.
I think all this excessive 'political correctness' just creates a backlash. Here in UK the police are criticized if they stop and search more blacks than whites, even though it is well known that the high crime areas where most drug/gun offenses take place are predominantly black. You'd be hard pressed to find many white faces in places like Brixton, South London to 'stop and search'. By stopping and searching youths who might well be involved in drugs/gun crime police are actually protecting the black population - nearly all this crime is black-on-black.
 
With the Rebel Flag, by trying to ban it whilst allowing Malcolm X shirts, etc. the schools are just creating a backlash which could promote racism, the very opposite of what they are supposed to be trying to achieve.
 
Let's have some common sense in all these matters. Stop banning geographical flags because of some point in their distant history, and stop being over-protective to ethnic minorities.

*****

You may not know me but my name is Glenda and i am a rebel and proud of it. A lot of people don't like me because my bed sheets are rebel flags. what do you think about that. Write back.

Glenda

****

An Associated Press article described how Jacqueline Duty of Greenup County, Kentucky was barred from wearing a red dress with diagonal blue and white stripes and white stars to her High School prom. Jacqueline is to sue the school district. Someone sent me this article and photo of Jacqueline in her dress, but it is copyrighted by AP.

Here is my reply to the person who sent me the article.

 

I think it's ridiculous! It's not even a recognizable Confederate Flag, just a red dress with blue and white stripes and some white stars. I'd like to publish it after the article, but the article and photo are copyright of AP. I hope Jacqueline wins her court case. Are they going to ban anything with a blue stripe and white stars?
 
If it was anywhere but Dixie they wouldn't dare try and ban a geographical flag. In UK you see Scottish and Welsh flags, in Spain you see Catalan flags, why should USA ban the Dixie flag?

*****

I thank u for the article u wrote . I just wish everybody felt the same way . It makes me sick that they won't fly the flag in most public places . I live in Florida and they took the flag off the state house. I have a favorite saying that is "heritage not hate". I love the picture u use on the site. I wish u would e mail me
back
                                            stephen
                                       "redneckbullrider"
 

Many thanks for you comments on my Rebel Flag article. Outside USA, as I wrote in the piece, the flag is indeed associated with the great musical heritage of the Southern States. It is a pity many Americans can't see it in the same way, just its racist history. Nearly ALL flags of European nations, and of countries which were colonized by European settlers like USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel, have a racist history, but none of them are banned.

 
Tony
*****

Subject: UNION FLAG PRIDE


 
I PROUDLY display the 34-star UNION FLAG on my automobile.  I am PROUD to  showcase the WINNING FLAG, the flag that represents FREEDOM and the end of  slavery.  I prefer NOT to show the LOSING flag. Gosh I love TRADITION. -  K.T.
 

We are not so chauvinistic in the UK. Scottish and Welsh flags are still flown proudly, even though they lost their fight for independence from the Union.

 
You have every right to display the 50 star Union flag of the present day United States, or earlier versions, just as Southerners have every right to display and feel proud of their Confederate flag. No other flag represents their unique Southern heritage, and this is recognized thruout the world by lovers of the musical heritage of the Deep South.
 
The cultural heritage of the Yankee States is quite different, just as English and Scottish cultural heritage is different. The Stars and Stripes do not represent the cultural heritage of the once impoverished South, which produced so much rich music, both black and white, out of this suffering.
 
Slavery was a long time ago. Are you seriously suggesting if the South had won independence from the Union, that the Confederate States of America would still be a slave-owning country in 2005? Are you seriously suggesting it would still have segregation? Even South Africa has gotten rid of apartheid.
 
The Union flags of both Britain and the United States once represented slave-owners and worse, in Britain's case colonialists who exploited and were responsible for mass killings and torture of ethnic people in their own countries.
 
Afro-Americans, native Americans, Hispanics, etc., born or  living in the Deep South  should  claim the Stars and Bars for their own along with whites. If they won't/can't do that then sadly a new flag needs to be designed, as happened in South Africa.. Hopefully any new flag would contain recognizable elements of the old Dixie flag. After all it is only red, white and blue with a St Andrew's Cross and white stars on a blue background.- not that different from the USA, Scottish or UK flags really. There are no racist symbols in the Dixie flag. You can say it is a racist symbol in itself, but the same could be said of virtually every European flag and every flag of countries settled by Europeans, because of their racist history. Get over it, accept the Dixie flag and move on into the 21st century. Tony

*****

Dear Tony,  I agree with your article. I went through the same thing your son and his friends are when I was in school too, and it was also hard to keep my tattoo covered up as well in school too. I'm the type of person that judges people by the way they act not by the color of them. I have many black friends and also have many of them that's enemies too cause I collect rebel flags and have a tattoo of one. Most blacks around here don't care if you're racist or not, if you like rebel flags then they think you're racist. Only thing I disagree with is mixed races; I was brought up to stay with your own race. I hope to get a reply from you. Thank you for you time .
 

After the article on the Rebel Flag are many comments from various people. It must be one of these you refer to as I'm not married, don't have a son and don't live in the United States, I'm in London, England. I am quite surprised at how hostile people are to the Rebel Flag in the USA. Here we display Scottish and Welsh flags without anyone objecting. I know the Rebel Flag is connected with slavery in a lot of people's minds, but that is only because it was against that background the 'War of Northern Aggression', as I heard it called on a Memphis riverboat, took place and the  flag seems to be frozen in the history of those times in many people's minds. I feel you should be allowed to marry, or not to marry, who you like - it is a personal choice. Thanks for your comments.

*****


 
I work for a major company called Scholastic Books. It's in Maumelle, Arkansas. It is a warehouse for Scholastic books. A man got fired the other day for having a rebel flag painted on his hood of his truck. They told him to paint it out or they would fire him. This man and another worker at the plant  couldn't or didn't have the money to paint it out and that truck was his only way to work. So they fired him for no reason at all. This was a good worker - he was there everyday and worked hard. He was not a trouble maker or a racist at all. There a lot of people think that is wrong. Could he do anything about this. Can a company do that? Dennis H
I live in London, England so am not familiar with US laws. All I can say is if someone was fired here for having a Scottish or Welsh flag on their truck, they could probably sue the company for being racist. On the other hand perhaps they could be fired for having a Nazi swastika flag on their truck. But as I have explained in my article and replies to others, the Dixie flag is a geographical flag like that of Scotland or Wales. This is fundamentally different from a purely political flag like the flag of the Third Reich or the flag of the Soviet Union, which were the flags associated with the National Socialist Party (Nazi Party) of Germany and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union respectively.
 
I think it is totally wrong to fire people or expel them from school for wearing a flag which represents a geographical area and its culture. But as I say, I'm no expert on U.S. law. I can't see anything inheritantly racist about the Rebel Flag. OK, it was once associated with slavery, but so were many other flags including that of the USA (Stars and Stripes) and the British Union Jack, which had whole nations enslaved under the racist British Empire. Once you start banning geographical flags, where do you stop? Tony

*****

 I like your site a lot. It tells the truth. I've some hing to tell u which I  think is crap.... well I go to Eagleton Middle school and there is a high school called the Heritage Mountaineers and then there is Maryville Rebels. Well when Heritage plays Maryville in a football game Maryville always cuts up with rebel flag and runs over the football field with it, and so last year a black guy had his son going to Maryville and he went to a football game and when he saw what Maryville was doing with the flag he got mad and pressed charges against the school board so now none of the city of Maryville or Alcoa or Blount county or Rockford are allowed to wear shirts, belts, shoelaces, bracelets, necklaces, jackets, hat or anything with the rebel flag on it. I think it is bull. Jessie.

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Hi, I'm Kindra. I'm 17 years old 'n' I'm a junior in high school!!!!! A lot of people take the rebel flag the wrong way especially schools. Schools are now banning kids from wearing their rebel flag. That's like taking away our freedom of speech. America gave us the freedom to wear our colors proudly, and they are ripping it right out from under us! Next they are going to not let us wear our red white and blue. They've already taken God out of all of our schools and now they are taking away the rebel flag, it's getting quite ridiculous. Luckly my school hasn't been hit with it yet! But we only have one black kid! We are one of the most non racist schools in Indiana and many of our kids fly our flags high and proud! Hell next thing I'm gonna get pulled over for having my rebel flag in my car. I love my flag and it represents me in many ways! So people at our school went to the Dixie outfitter's site. They have shirts on there for 5 bucks 'n' many of kids from our school have bought them. They have many slogan's but do not have one rebel flag on them! They are just trying to prove a point. Some say if this flag offends you then you need a history lesson! Check it out. I bought 5 of them! And I'm trying to prove my point to other schools that are banning the rebel flag. It's our right to wear what we want not  conform to their idea. We  should be able to show our heritage in the way we want to! I don't know if I have made a point. To fly or wear the rebel flag you don't have to be racist, but the point is some of us white American folk like to show what we stand for!!! I think this site here that you have is great. I'm happy u make this, it puts a smile on my face too see people representing what they love!!! I will be back sooner or later with more to say. I'm gonna save this site on my favorites. Keep it up!

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Tony and to whom ever else this may concern,
I feel as if I am confronted with the issue of the confederate flag almost every day. I am 1/2 American - born and raised in Florida, and 1/2 Venezuelan. My boyfriend is a redneck. He wears rebel flag t-shirts practically everyday. We've been going out for 6 months now. No one understands why we're going out at all, because everyone knows how I feel about the subject of the Confederacy and the rebel flag, but you could say that we agree to disagree and we are enjoying our time together. His redneck friends understand my sensitivity with the subject and they are all careful about what they say in front of me, which is very polite. He is also friends with people of color, many of whom wear rebel flag t-shirts themselves. Before I started dating him, I always looked down upon rednecks with their lifted trucks full of mud and their rebel flag t-shirts deeming them as racist and disgusting for trying to offend others. Yet I found out that my boyfriend, along with many of his friends, simply wear the shirts and get the tattoos and fly the flags to show off their "Southern heritage".  I have no problem with that aspect. The problem I have with flying the flag is not what THEY who are flying it think about it, but how it is perceived by OTHERS. My boyfriend along with his friends claim the flag that they fly is the battle flag and has nothing to do with racism, yet many people find the flag racist and offensive. I know it used to offend me but now I am somewhat immune to it although I would never fly the flag myself. I also am aware that the flag offends many people of color, so why would anybody want to hurt those you don't even know ? . I still cringe when I walk past a group of people that give me disgusted looks because I am in the presence of somebody wearing a rebel flag t-shirt. A new flag, a new symbol, for southern heritage needs to be found, there is just the problem of getting others to accpet it. An obstacle which will probably never be overcome.
thank you for your time.
~ J.

 

Many thanks for your most interesting contribution to this debate, which I will add to the discussion, just using your initial if I may.
 
I note with interest that you say that many of your boyfriend's non-white pals wear shirts, etc. with the Rebel Flag on them. That must prove something!
 
There is nothing new I can say on this subject, I've said it all before. However, I'll repeat myself. Here in UK if the British National Party parade with the Union Flag, it is a racist symbol. If non-racists display the Union Flag it is not a racist symbol. It is as simple as that. In USA, if the KKK or similar groups display the Confederate Flag it is a racist symbol, if non-racists display it it is not. If Afro-Americans display the Confederate Flag, then they have reclaimed it and it is an anti-racist symbol.
 
The Nazis made gays wear pink triangles in the camps, and it was a symbol of oppression. Gays reclaimed the pink triangle and it now a symbol of gay liberation. Southern blacks need to reclaim the Dixie flag as a symbol of their heritage.
 
Those who object to the flag should realize that nearly all flags can be used as racist symbols, but that doesn't mean everyone who displays the flag is a racist. If Le Pen in France displays the French tricolor, that becomes instantly a racist symbol too. I regard the Confederate Flag as the only available symbol of Southern Heritage, black and white. It is only racist if racists are displaying it. Tony

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Let me start by saying, you have put together a very nice site. Now that we have that out of the way we can jump over to the topic at hand. As I type this, I have a 3x5 Confederate flag hanging behind me on my wall here in my computer room (also an American flag in my bedroom). I have a clock sitting on top of my tower right next to me that has an eagle in flight over 2 confederate flags. I have a flag painted on my truck and my car and I have a flag license plate on both as well. I am from Virginia, my mother is from South Carolina and my father from North Carolina, now, when I look at or see a Confederate flag, I'll tell ya, the first thing that comes to mind, well, the first is funny, I always think of Larry the Cable Guy, GIT-R-DONE! (sorry, had to get it in there) and followed a close second is the war, I personally don't even think about slavery and racism. I have tried and tried again to explain to people what it means, but they don't seem to understand. Everybody that knows me knows that I am a country boy/redneck/Southerner whichever you would like to use and I am VERY proud of that, just like the blacks are proud of Malcom X and Mr. Jr. So, I really don't understand why kids can wear that stuff at school but white kids can't fly the Confederate flag at school, altho, when I was in high school I did wear my Confederate flag shirt once a week, not very many people liked it, but they all eventually got the point that I wasn't listening to what they had to say, for the simple fact, they had no idea what they were talking about, I know what it meant so they were just flapping their lips. Whew...now I feel better, thank you for the chance to speak on this matter and y'all have a good one.  Earl from Virginia Beach.
Thanks for your email, and comments about the site. I assume you are just talking about the Rebel Flag page, though there are a lot more things on The Unorthodox Site if you hit on the HOME link at the very end. However all my articles are controversial, and you may not agree with many of them.
 
As to the Confederate Flag, this article has gotten more comments than any others. Seems to be a real issue in the Southern States. Nobody bats an eyelid if you wear it in UK or Europe. Monday I was going to a show featuring legendary Sun Record stars from Memphis - Sonny Burgess, Billy Lee Riley, Jack Clement and Ike Turner and I wore a Sun jacket and t-shirt, a Confederate Flag/James Dean belt buckle and a great Rebel Flag button I bought in Natchez, Ms on a visit to the States once. Even the black woman I worked with didn't pass any comment, doubt if she even noticed. I love the button - it has a Rebel Flag on it and the words: 'Beautify the South - Put a Yankee on a bus'. All the best from London, England, Tony

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Subject: I would like to thank you
 
I am a 19 yr old girl from Texas/Mississippi. Since I was a tiny little thing my Daddy flew the Rebel Flag in our yard with pride. I asked my father one day "Daddy why do you fly a flag with such hate behind it?" I could see the anger in his eyes as he looked down at me and said " Peanut you don't understand the true meaning of this flag." At that time a friend (black) of my fathers approached. They both explained to me that the flag stood for much more than the crap most people believed. Now I totally understand and finding someone else that is strong enough to understand that nothing in the world is more important than overcoming and believing in something that stands for accomplishments of our south. Right on man keep your ground because if we give in then our flag will fade!   Carrie Murphy    feel free to put my full name!!!

Many thanks, Carrie, and I will post your message with your full name. I'm always pleased to hear about black Southerners defending the Rebel Flag, like your father's friend. It's the best way to get it accepted, when Southern Afro-Americans claim it as part of their heritage too.

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Think it is really stupid that we can't wear rebel shirts or anyhting rebel, but guess what? I'm gonna wear my necklace and bracelet. I have a shirt that says 'Born Rebel, bred Rebel and when I die I'll be a dead Rebel'.  Megan
 

That very respected British institution, the BBC, which has to be very impartial and can't afford to be racist, used the Rebel Flag on its title sequences when introducing some of the Queens of Country Music in a program last weekend. As I say, outside of USA the Rebel Flag just stands for rock'n'roll, rockabilly,  Country Music and other aspects of Southern heritage. The BBC wouldn't have been allowed to use the Rebel Flag were it considered racist in UK.

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I have to say,  it is sad to know that so many people are so blind to the truth!  I live in the panhandle of Florida, and my family flies our confederate flag with pride.  Now my landlord says either the flag goes, or we go!  What kind of prejudice is that?  Ignorant and blind if you ask me!  I believe in what the flag represents, and feel that I have a right to hang it where I want.  What is your feed back?  It's not against the law here in Florida to fly the flag, so why should I remove it?  C R

I'm British, from London, England. But I get the impression Florida, despite being in the South and having Jeb Bush as Governor, is very much like a Yankee State. All those New York matrons and tourists down in Miami, Yankee/foreign tourists in Orlando and Disneyworld, Cuban refugees, etc. I still don't see why your landlord should demand you remove the flag, unless it is causing race riots which might damage his property. Would he object if you flew the Stars and Stripes next to it, or the Florida State flag?

 

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I love your story, and I also love the rebel flag, I may be mixed but it still doesn't give people the right to make fun of it or me. I have two shirts that have rebel flags on them and I wear them all the time.

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I totally agree with you.. I am a BORN and BRED Southern gal who loves to show my heritage whenever I get the chance.  Someone who tells me I can't wear the clothes I purchase isn't going to like what I have to say. When they purchase my clothes then they can tell me what I can or can't not wear. If my children want to wear a rebel shirt I will allow it. It is a part of their heritage. Most people see it as HATE but why can't they face the  fact that slavery is over and we don't owe them anything? Our ancestors may have had slaves but that was a VERY LONG time ago. If they  see hate then they are the ones who are racist. I believe if they have a right to wear their Malcolm X shirts and FUBU and such then we have to the right to wear our Rebel flag shirt. Don't be ashamed of where you came from or who you are!! Be proud that you are from the South.. Wear or fly your flag with pride!!!
Much Love, D. Hurt,  Originally from Charleston SC!!!
 

You know what, I think black people can go on and on about black history month, but we can't wear a simple rebel flag that stands for our heritage.
 It's not that we hate black people, we are just trying to support our heritage. See, I will tell anybody straight to their face that the High
 School I use to go did not ban rebel flags at all, which makes me grateful. Even though I am out of school I still wear my rebel flag shirts all the
 time. I like my heritage and always will, and I will stand up for it when somebody is putting it down. You may call me a racist, but that's just the
 way I am. My parents raised me to not be ashamed of my heritage and what I believe in. That's just me, I am southern born and raised. Also, even where I live all the black people wear Malcom X t-shirts to school, and everything so why can't we wear our heritage that is the only question I have got to ask you. The bottom line the way I feel about it is if somebody has got a problem with heritage of this country that is their problem, and not ours. So, don't incriminate us for what we believe in. This is just the way I will be. There is a little saying that goes in my town "YOU WEAR YOUR X AND I'LL WEAR MINE!!" It's heritage not hate. Before you go and start putting THE CONFEDERATE FLAG down you need to take a look inside yourself for a min, because deep down you don't hate it. Therefore, what my letter concludes up to is that people including me are not going to stop wearing rebel flags, and flying them. I just got to tell you one last thing, it wasn't only white people that died for the rebel flag, but also blacks. I know a website right now where a black carried the rebel flag for 300 miles or longer, and he was proud of his heritage even though most blacks think it's about slavery, but really it's not it's just about part of the country that wanted to be it's own person. If you can't understand that then YOU DO NEED A HISTORY LESSON!! It really makes me mad that most people have such a simple mind about the confederacy. Sincerely, REBELS ANGEL!!

Thanks for your email. In case you are in any doubt, I will defend the display of the Confederate or any other geographical flag, and did so in my original article. Once you start banning flags which represent nations/geographical areas, there is really no end to it.

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Subject: hey
 
I know that you have got a lot of e-mails about the schools not allowed to wear the rebel flags to school. I think personally that that is a bunch of bull because we live here in the South and that is our tradition and that is what we are used to and I think that it is really bad for even the people who was born in the South and raised in the South are trying to take this away from us. If they have such a problem with the flag they could go back to the North 'cause we don't need them anyways! You know what I'm saying! All I'm am saying is that it is a part of history and we are learning about it in school so I don't understand why we can't wear them. Are they going to rip out all the pages in the history books because it talks about it all the time! It's history and they need to live with it and get over it! That's what I think about this ordeal so what do you think about it! Thank You!  
 
                                           Keli Edmonds
                          Smith County High School. (Tennessee)
 

It seems Yankees don't like the flag, neither do some African Americans, because of its history. ALL flags have a history, and none of it is nice. Slavery and colonialism was once endemic in most of the European countries/empires and in countries they settled, so are we to ban ALL flags? Why pick on the Confederate Flag just because they lost the War between the States? It is a perfectly legitimate geographical flag representing the people (black and white), culture, heritage and yes, history, of Dixie.

 
There is NO other flag which represents this culture-rich region of the United States. You can no more ban the Rebel Flag and replace it with Old Glory than you can ban the British Union Flag and replace it with the EU flag. It is all politically correct nonsense. So the Rebel Flag, like Old Glory, the Union Jack and many other flags, have a racist history. Get over it! It now represents the integrated Southern States, and especially the rich heritage in music, etc. they have given the world.
 

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Please check out my website and books: www.stanleylott.com and www.clik.to/sklott Yes you may use the picture (below) of me holding the flag. the U.S. Flag is the real slave flag. It flew over top of slave ships and flew over a independent slave nation for almost Ninety years. The Confederate Battle Flag is only a flag that the Confederate Soldiers took into battle with them. It does not in any way represent slavery or oppression.The Confederate Battle Flag has been lied on and defamed by lying individuals. Thank you very much.

Stanley K. Lott

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DEAR TONY,

 

HI I AM FROM SOUTH CAROLINA AND I WEAR THE REBEL FLAG. I WASN'T RAISED AROUND IT BUT MY ENTIRE FAMILY ARE A BUNCH OF REDNECKS AND COUNTRY FOLK. WE WEAR THE REBEL FLAG IN REMEMBRANCE OF WHEN THE NORTH AND THE SOUTH FOUGHT. WE COULD NEVER WEAR THEM IN SCHOOL BUT THEY LET BLACK PEOPLE WEAR MALCOLM X SHIRTS AND THEY WOULDN'T SAY ANYTHING. BUT WHEN  IT COMES TO THE REBEL FLAG THEY THINK IT IS RACIST. BUT IT ISN'T. I THINK WE NEED TO PUT THE FLAG BACK UP AND GIVE EVERYONE A HISTORY LESSON.
 
THESE COLORS DON'T RUN NEVER HAVE NEVER WILL!!!!!!!!!!!
 
THANKS
GABINA
SOUTH CAROLINA

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Cheers Tony,
 
Your blog on the Confederate Battle Flag is very interesting.  I have a somewhat oblique perspective on the whole thing, as a 30-something Southerner from Florida, the "Lost State of the Confederacy," now residing here in England.  Your point on the Welsh and Scots flags is right on the mark.  In fact I think we Southerners' embracing of certain defiant and warlike symbols of the CSA is very much rooted in the psychology of any defeated people - in the same situation any people will become defiant, as history shows repeatedly.  Those who are defeated, demoralized, and crushed need more than ever symbols of strength and unity to cling to, lest their culture simply collapse.  Thus the Red Dragon of Wales and the Welsh language are coming back strong, and I feel the same familiar simmering hostility for the English among the Welsh that I felt growing up towards the North.  Ditto for the Scots, if not even moreso.  And the Battle Flag would be the same sort of defiant "up yours Yankees" symbol were it not for slavery and a large modern-day slave-descended population that are, in all honesty, almost innocent bystanders of a venom intended for people "up North."  In my youth, when I proudly displayed that flag, it never crossed my mind that blacks could see it as an affront to them - call it the ignorance of youth, but I was aiming it at Northerners in all their arrogant glory.  And being in "Occupied Florida" God knows there was no shortage of targets.  And anyone who thinks we should have "gotten over it" in a mere 140 years is ignorant of history and humanity.  When was Welsh independence finally extinguished?  And Scottish?  Have they "gotten over it"?  The Republican Northern Irish may never "get over it."  "Get over it" is something the victors say, who have nothing to get over.  And having lived in both places, I can also attest that the Koreans and Germans are a long way from getting over it.  But we Southerners should just snap our fingers and move on, meekly at the side of the North.  Like hell we will.  And for the record, I feel far more kinship towards a black Southerner than towards any of those "damned Yankees."
 
On a side note, I'd direct your attention to the link below, which explains all the national flags of the South or the Confederacy.  I suggest we in the U.S. all go back to the beginning and re-adopt the Bonnie Blue Flag or the Stars and Bars (the "First National") since most Americans are so hopelessly ignorant of history they'll never have the slightest idea what these two are.  By the way, the Confederate Battle Flag was perfectly square, as opposed the CS Naval Jack which is the one you usually see shown as the "Battle Flag."  The actual square Battle Flag was nicknamed the "Southern Cross" - the "Stars and Bars" was the First National Flag.
 
 
 
All the Best,
GB in East Anglia
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur 
(So long as we breathe, we shall defend)

 

Hi Gary, thanks for your interesting post and especially the link to the various designs of the flags of the Confederacy. I think one of these would be excellent to replace the more familiar Confederate Flag, but no doubt someone would object sooner or later. Anyway I'll post your contribution, with the link, on the Website in the Comments section after the original article.
 
Tony

 

I'm from the South and wear the Confederate Flag on my jacket in the winter time, and at least once to four times a week (depending on where I am) I have to explain to people what it means and why I wear it. I think that I'll just start referring people to this web site so that they can educate themselves on the Flag I wear so %^$%^$%^$ proudly !!!
 
B C

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From 'Breathless' Dan O'Coffey, writing from Ireland:

Can I add to music styles to come out of the South the following: Bluegrass, Western Swing, Cajun, Zydeco, Tex-Mex, Cajunta, Swamp Rock (some call it Swamp 'Pop') and much of the 'boogie woogie'. The British Union Jack is also known as 'the butcher's apron' in Ireland. Tony, the way you say you have to be careful you don't wear the flag around your work colleague. Like man, nobody ever needs to apologize for wearing the flag! Your first compromise is one too much, if you went to the cost and trouble of having the flat tattooed, surely it is to show it! Also, to cover it up only shows a consciously and known guilt - e.g. that it is, in fact, racial! Now that is surely both a betrayal and treachery of this noble emblem's ideals! By adding insult to injury, yes, that is by the suggestion to also wear an anti-racist emblem... I thought the Confederate Flag was/is supposed to be just that?? Deliberate guilt is playing into both the hands of the now K.K.K. cloaked cruel cowardly murderers!! Also any thinking person who is black or anti-racist will not be convinced by website admittance like this! (By having to also wear another anti-racist type tattoo or button means then that the flag is deemed to be at least partially racist - a further 'bad' admission that is unnecessarily said. This is akin to asking those who wear Malcolm X shirts to also wear something pro-white!)

I flew the Confederate Flag outside my house in North Ireland during the '70s in that war time. It was disliked by both sides in the struggle here. But the Confederate Flag is flown in County Cork in Munster in the South of Ireland at Celtic Games finals played there each year now for decades and is seen on TV coverage. Cork City is known as Rebel Cork and the fans support their teams and county by flying various flags with 'red' on it - all except the 'butcher's apron' or British Union Jack as they burned Cork City during the rising. They like pretty flags and the Confederate Flag has much eye catching colour design and beauty. Personally I love the people of the Southland from my years spent living there and looking for obscure records in all 13 states. Their Southern hospitality, from both black and white people, has no match on Earth! Their flag is known throughout the world and it is all they have of an identity. That flag is historical, people visit Old Dixie just to be a part of that and many seek out postcards, tiny flags, etc. which have the Confederate emblem on. To take this away or to tamper with it in any way would surely lead to major unrest for perhaps all time. This flag has been bloodied and battered in the greatest and last of the shoulder to shoulder wars where brother fought brother and father fought son and neither side won and neither did they run. This is a loser's flag that finally won!

Here is another reason to be pleased to look upon the flag - had the greatest General Robert E. Lee not called an unconditional surrender while his army in Texas were still winning skirmishes, there would never have been the peace that exists today, instead terrorism! Both the 'Blue' and the 'Grey' sang 'Dixie'. It's often said when Lee surrendered to Gen. Grant. The Flag is a flag of valor. Its heritage is bravery and heroic. It's the black flag of Quantrill's Raiders that has much in common. The ultimate cowards - many men on horses who call on a poor black person in their cabins and murder - fully knowing that they cannot go to no law.

The American forces today depend heavily on recruits from the Southern States and enlist soldiers from the Carolinas/Tennessee/Texas, etc., etc., etc. in all these wars which have produced too many dead heroes! The Southland is still being pillaged and raped. The people who live South of the Mason-Dixon Line actually live in a colony and as such must be allowed their own traditional flag. The South lost the war, but since then the people of the South have given to the world out of all that repression an international art form of music which will last forever! Such things transcend time and people.

Furthermore, when young school-aged people and others are forcibly told not to wear something they will; it may be their civil rights! 'Dixie On My Mind' is on my brain shaped flag t-shirt, from old New Orleans Loo-zee-ana!

Vocal groups are often Southern or else have Gospel/Pentecostal backgrounds, e.g. Tony Middleton, lead singer of The Willows is from the Carolinas.

Tony, stick with it - don't cha dare quit it, your bound to git it. Yes sir, or you'll cause confusion and a split with two types of flag designs and the established tradition, history and valor of the original flag will keep coming back and back, no matter which, who or what!

'If' the South had won the war is fantasizing, but a fact is Elvis Presley sang 'Dixie' on T.V. - 'look away, look away...'

Daniel O'Coffey salutes Tony Papard! 'Rock'n'Roll'.

Thanks for your contribution, Dan. One of the few from non-Southerners outside the US. Dan's not on the internet, but I sent him a printout of this webpage and the above was his reply. 'Breathless' Dan Coffey is one of the original Teddy-boys, born in Ireland, and who then moved to South Wales (both countries have been colonized by the English). He has traveled extensively around the Deep South of the USA, and introduced Rock-a-Billy to the world, bringing over many rare records by artists never heard of outside of The South. Dan has probably done more than anyone else to spread the 1950s musical culture of the South to Europe and the entire world. Our mutual friend, Screamin' Dee Snoble, who lived on the borders of the South in Cincinnati, Ohio for years, introduced me to the Rebel Flag way back in the 1960s. I started wearing it to identify with the musical heritage of the South, and now it is seen everywhere on the rock'n'roll, Rock-a-Billy and Country Music scenes in Europe and around the world. Southerners are so happy when they see others wearing the flag, and in so doing recognizing the unique heritage of the Southland. I have seen many artists from the Southern States beam with pride when they see European audiences displaying the Rebel Flag - taking photos of it, or inviting the person up on stage to display it. Not one has ever complained, not even black artists like Little Richard, who hails from Macon, Georgia. If a Welsh singer was coming to your town, it would be the right thing to display the red, white and green Welsh flag with the Welsh dragon symbol in its center, and if a Southern singer comes you should display the flag of Dixie. If the artist is black, so much the better - it is the best way to get the flag accepted by ALL races in the South as their national flag.

It is NOT necessarily considered a racist  symbol outside of the USA - for instance even BBC TV displayed the Confederate Flag when introducing the Kings and Queens of Country Music. Why? Because it is the ONLY, repeat, the ONLY symbol which represents the Deep South culture from whence Country Music, and so many other musical forms, came. Nobody has accused the BBC of being 'racist' for displaying this flag.

Dan writes, earlier in his letter: 'That is considerate and thoughtful of you to not want to be responsible for causing race riots - I can dig it. But I've already left in my pages on my thoughts on this before I got today's letter, and when I send it maybe you'll enter it on the internet site, then you can shoot it all down with your "don't want race riots" reasoning, man, I don't mind. It keeps thoughts flowing, saying something different at least. I expect people to always try to improve on what's been said and so everybody learns and the subject then does not stagnate - amen.'

I was getting so many letters from teachers and schoolkids in the South saying they are not allowed to wear anything with the Confederate Flag symbol to school because it could cause race riots, that I had to make some sort of response. Let me explain: I don't see the Confederate Flag as any more 'racist' than the Stars'n'Stripes, the British Union Flag, the French Tricolor or a host of other flags. But some people obviously DO see it as a 'racist' flag, and so in order to gain acceptance as a non-racist symbol, it is essential that non-racists are seen to be displaying it. The only way this can be done is if they wear some sort of anti-racist symbol alongside it in places where the Rebel Flag is considered to be a 'racist' symbol. This is to educate people that not all who display the flag are racists. If black people also display the flag, this will also help to 'claim the flag' from racist organizations like the KKK.

This has been done before with symbols like the Pink Triangle, which the Nazis made gay people wear in the concentration/death camps of the Third Reich. If the Pink Triangle, a Nazi symbol of oppression and the mass-murder of gays, could be 'claimed' as a symbol of liberation by gay people, then how much more so can the Confederate Flag, which was never a symbol of racism as such. It was simply the flag of the Southern States. Despite what Dan's son Daniel says (he disagrees with his father and 'can't accept that the Confederate Flag has any valid geographical territory to claim even.') it is clearly a flag representing 13 states of the Deep South, commonly known as Dixie. If that is not a 'geographical territory' then I don't know what is. It is a bit rich coming from someone who, quite correctly, claims the 6 counties of Ireland continue to be colonized by the British imperialists and who quite rightly regards the Irish tricolor as his flag, not the 'butcher's apron' British Union Jack. Just as the Irish tricolor is the legitimate flag of the whole of Ireland, so the Confederate Flag is the legitimate flag of the 13 states of the Deep South of the USA. It represents their territory, their culture, their heritage just as much as the Catalan, Basque, Welsh and Scottish flags represent theirs. It cannot be 'banned'. It HAS to be claimed from the racists, who do NOT have sole right to display it.

As to re-designing the flag, I tend to agree with Dan. This is not necessary, nor would a re-designed flag be widely accepted. This was very much a 'second best' option if there was so much widespread resistance to the Rebel Flag as it stands. I merely pointed out there were earlier designs of the Confederate Flag, or that it could be modified in some way. But really I think it should stand as it is, and people should learn to accept it as a geographical, historical and cultural emblem of the Southern States. I should add that I have fairly recently worn a Confederate Flag belt buckle in the presence of the black person I work with, and she made no comment. As I say, it is NOT widely taken to be a 'racist' symbol outside of America.

The fact that slavery existed in the CSA and many other countries at the time of The War of Northern Aggression/War Between The States/Civil War is neither here nor there - that was well over 100 years ago, and many other flags displayed at UN headquarters have similar, or much worse, racist histories, especially the 'butcher's apron' aka as the British Union Flag. However, you can't ban any flags unless they are purely political, like the red, white and black swastika flag of the National Socialist Party of Germany (Nazis) or possibly the hammer-and-sickle flag identified with the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. But it could even be argued these flags represented the geographical entities known as the Third Reich and the Soviet Union, so it is really difficult to ban ANY flags. We may, or may not, disagree with the reason behind those geographical entities, but is that reason enough to ban the flag? I strongly disagree with the principle behind the state of Israel, which I regard as a racist apartheid state and a Western colony of settlers on land stolen from the Palistinians, but I have to accept it is a geographical/historical reality and therefore have to accept its flag (even though it also contains no geographical element in its design). There is STILL a difference, however, between wearing a Rebel Flag symbol, and a hammer and sickle or a Nazi swastika. The last two identify a person with Communist or Nazi politics. The Rebel Flag just identifies a person with the 13 states of the Deep South of the USA, the former CSA states, and not necessarily with the racial politics of some Southerners at the time of the Confederacy.

Neither the USSR nor the Third Reich flags had any geographical element to their design whatsoever, only political colors/symbols. (However, the flags of many other former-Communist countries did have a geograpical element - the tricolors of Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia and the German Democratic Republic, for instance, just included a Socialist symbol in the center. This Socialist symbol has now simply been removed, but Russia has reverted to its former tricolor flag.) The Confederate Flag contains stars for each of the 13 states which made up the Confederacy, and it is NOT identified with any one political group. It is definitely a legitimate flag of a geographical entity, i.e. Dixie, or the Southern States. It does NOT need redesigning, and should be accepted/claimed as the legitimate flag of all the peoples (of all races) of the Southern States, and their heritage/culture/history.

Never forget the British burned, raped and pillaged Ireland and many other colonies around the world, and the Yankees did exactly the same to the Southern States. The former, and present, British colonies rightly have their own flags to represent their struggle, their history, their national pride and their cultural heritage. This should not be denied to the people of the South either. If there is some other flag/symbol non-whites from the Southern States feel represent their culture better, then let them display it along with the national flag of Dixie. That is one way the Confederate Flag can be made acceptable to all. Banning flags will only cause resentment, and ultimately more violence and wars. There should be room for ALL state and regional flags within a federal United States of America, including the proud flag of Dixie!

*****

Hi Tony,
    My name is Erin and I am from Virginia. I am doing a research paper on the contriversal Confederate Flag. Of course being a proud southerner, I beleive that the flag is a symbol of pride and bravery that allowed us to rebel from the North in the first place! Your website has inspired me. I have been to your site more than once with this subject! Last year some friends of mine tried to write a petition to our school board requesting the tollerance of the Confederate flag in our high school. Needless to say, it did not work. The school board officals, as well as our principal is on their ways, and im not sure if anything could convince them otherwise! I just wanted to write and say how proud i am to be an American and how proud i am of my southern heritage! I will have southern blood running through my viens til the day i die! :) Thanks for you time!
 
~Southern Belle~

*****

Here's a very interesting article about the American Civil War, the Southern Generals, the Yankees and the issue of slavery:

A Tribute To Lee And Jackson
By Chuck Baldwin
January 20, 2006


January is often referred to as "Generals Month" as no less than
four famous Confederate Generals claimed January as their birth
month: James Longstreet (Jan. 8, 1821), Robert E. Lee (Jan. 19,
1807), Thomas Jonathan Jackson (Jan. 21, 1824), and George
Pickett (Jan. 28, 1825). Two of these men, Lee and Jackson, are
especially noteworthy.

Without question, Robert E. Lee and "Stonewall" Jackson were
two of the greatest military leaders of all time. Even more, the Lee
and Jackson tandem is regarded by many military historians as
having formed perhaps the greatest battlefield duo in the history of
warfare. If Jackson had survived the battle of Chancellorsville, it is
very possible that the South would have prevailed at Gettysburg
and perhaps would even have won the War Between The States.

In fact, it was Lord Roberts, commander-in-chief of the British
armies in the early Twentieth Century, who said, "In my opinion,
Stonewall Jackson was one of the greatest natural military geniuses
the world ever saw. I will even further than that-as a campaigner in
the field, he never had a superior. In some respects, I doubt
whether he ever had an equal."

While the strategies and circumstances of the War Of Northern
Aggression can (and will) be debated by professionals and laymen
alike, one fact is undeniable: Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. Jackson
were two of the finest Christian gentlemen this country has ever
produced! Both their character and their conduct were beyond
reproach.

Unlike his northern counterpart, Ulysses S. Grant, General Lee
never sanctioned or condoned slavery. Upon inheriting slaves from
his deceased father-in-law, Lee immediately freed them. And
according to historians, Jackson enjoyed a familial relationship
with those few slaves which were in his home. In addition, unlike
Abraham Lincoln and U.S. Grant, neither Lee nor Jackson ever
spoke disparagingly of the black race.

As those who are familiar with history know, General Grant and
his wife held personal slaves before and during the War Between
The States, and even Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation did not
free them. They were not freed until the Thirteenth Amendment
was passed after the conclusion of the war. Grant's excuse for not
freeing his slaves was that "good help is so hard to come by these
days."

Of course, Lincoln's views on slavery and the black race are
widely known (at least by those familiar with history). In fact, if
Lincoln were alive today, he would no doubt be identified as a
white supremacist.

For example, in an 1858 debate Lincoln said, "I will say, then, that
I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in anyway
the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I
am not, nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of
Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry
with white people, and I will say in addition to this that there is a
physical difference between the white and black races which I
believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of
social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live,
while they do remain together, there must be the position of
superior and inferior. I, as much as any other man, am in favor of
having the superior position assigned to the white race." Lincoln
routinely made such comments.

Contrast the sentiments of Lincoln and Grant to those of Robert E.
Lee and Thomas Jackson. For example, it is well established that
Jackson regularly conducted a Sunday School class for black
children. This was a ministry he took very seriously. As a result, he
was dearly loved and appreciated by the children and their parents.

Furthermore, both Jackson and Lee emphatically supported the
abolition of slavery. In fact, Lee called slavery "a moral and
political evil." He also said "the best men in the South" opposed it
and welcomed its demise. Jackson said he wished to see "the
shackles struck from every slave."

To think that Lee and Jackson (and the vast majority of
Confederate soldiers) would fight and die to preserve an institution
they considered evil and abhorrent is the height of absurdity! It is
equally repugnant to impugn and denigrate the memory of these
remarkable Christian gentlemen!

In fact, after refusing Abraham Lincoln's offer to command the
Union Army in 1861, Robert E. Lee wrote to his sister on April 20
of that year to explain his decision. In the letter he wrote, "With all
my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty as an
American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to
raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I
therefore have resigned my commission in the army and save in
defense of my native state, with the sincere hope that my poor
services may never be needed."

Lee's decision to resign his commission with the Union Army
must have been the most difficult decision of his life. Remember
that Lee's direct ancestors had fought in America's War For
Independence. His father, "Light Horse Harry" Henry Lee, was a
Revolutionary War hero, Governor of Virginia, and member of
Congress. In addition, members of his family were signatories to
the Declaration of Independence.

Remember, too, that not only did Robert E. Lee graduate from
West Point at the top of his class, he is yet today the only cadet to
graduate from that prestigious academy without a single demerit!

However, Lee knew that what Lincoln was about to do was both
immoral and unconstitutional. As a man of honor and integrity, the
only thing Lee could do was that which his father had done: fight
for freedom and independence. And that is exactly what he did.

Instead of allowing a politically correct culture to sully the
memory of Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. Jackson, all Americans
should hold them in a place of highest honor and respect. Anything
less is a disservice to history and a disgrace to the principles of
truth and integrity.

© Chuck Baldwin

NOTE TO THE READER:

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*****

And from the Wikipedia entry on The Rebel or Confederate Flag comes this interesting article:

Displaying the flag

What is usually called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag" (actually the Navy Jack as explained above) is still a widely-recognized symbol. The display of the flag is a controversial and very emotional issue, generally because of disagreement over exactly what it symbolizes. To many in the US South it is simply a symbol of their heritage and pride in their ancestors who held out during years of war under terrible odds and sacrifice.[citation needed] Others see it as a symbol of the institution of slavery not knowing that Abraham Lincoln, prior to secession, offered the Southern States a 13th Amendment [Congress shall make no laws affecting the instituition of (slavery)...thereby making it permanent], or of the Jim Crow laws established by the US Congress enforcing racial segregation in the Southern States for almost a century later.[citation needed] According to Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the south's resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance. A 1994 Harris poll showed that 68% of blacks nationwide did not find the flag offensive. That same poll showed 92% of southern people, of all races, did not find it offensive. [2]

On April 12, 2000, the South Carolina state senate passed a bill to remove the flag of the former Confederate States of America from on top of the statehouse dome by a majority vote of 36 to 7. Placed there in 1962, according to one local news report, "the new bill specified that a more traditional version of the battle flag would be flown in front of the Capitol next to a monument honoring fallen Confederate soldiers. The bill then went to the House, where it encountered some difficulty. But on May 18, 2000, after the bill was modified to ensure that the height of the flag's new pole would be 30 feet, it was passed by a majority of 66 to 43, and Governor Jim Hodges signed the bill five days later. On July 1, the flag was removed from the South Carolina statehouse." Current state law prohibits the flag's removal from the statehouse grounds without additional legislation. Police were placed to guard this flag after several attempts by individuals to remove it. Some regard the flag as easier to see in that location than when it was atop the State House Dome.

More recent studies, however, show changing attitudes toward the Confederate battle flag, particularly among blacks - perhaps due to media reports of the issue stemming from legislative battles regarding the flag's official use in Georgia, Mississippi, and South Carolina. In 2005, two Western Carolina University researchers found that 74% of U.S. African-Americans polled favored removal of the flag from the South Carolina Capitol building. Cooper & Knotts, 2005 As battle lines over the use of the flag have (again) hardened, the NAACP and many civil rights groups have attacked the flag. Other groups such as the Sons of Confederate Veterans have actively protested the use of any Confederate flags by the Ku Klux Klan and other hate groups, stating that the hate groups are blemishing the memory of the ancestors of the SCV. Some members of the SCV have even faced down Klansmen at their rallies and marches, to protest the inappropriate usage of these flags. The NAACP maintains an official boycott of South Carolina, citing its continued use of the battle flag on its Statehouse grounds.

So, according to this article, slavery was not even an issue prior to the secession of the CSA states from the Union, since Lincoln had already conceded this point. It was all about the rights of States,  and the Confederate Flag didn't become controversial till a century later during the Civil Rights Movement. Even in 1994 the majority of black Americans didn't find the flag offensive according to a Harris poll. Neither this survey, nor the 2005 one by Carolina University researchers, was confined to Southern blacks, who might well be more in favor of their regional flag than Northerners. You might as well ask Englishmen what they think about displaying the Welsh or Scottish flags. It is good to see the Sons of Confederate Veterans have protested the inappropriate use of the Rebel Flag by the KKK and similar racist rightwing groups. The flag itself is clearly perfectly legitimate, to argue otherwise is politically incorrect nonsense. Displaying of ANY flags by racist. rightwing groups is what is offensive. This applies to the British Union Jack, the Confederate Flag, the French Tricolor and many others national flags.

[

*****

My name is April. I live in Thomasville, GA. I love almost everything about the South. I love its history and my southern heritage. My dad, brother, and most of our friends are members of the SCV. I am proud to have Confederate ancestors. I hate that we had to take our emblem off of our flag. The majority of the Black community feel that the confederate flag stands for slavery. My old school wanted to ban our flag but most of the students signed a petition stating that if they banned our flags we would stop coming to class we would sit in the hallways. They didn't believe us and banned our flag. Well we all sat in the halls from when the first bell rang till the last bell rang. I am not a racist person I'm just very much into my history. People in South Georgia love it here because of our history. The say my flag stands for slavery, well I have news for them, the American flag was there first.
 
 
my heritage.

 
Love always & forever,
                 April L. Ragan

*****

I'm a Canadian sourcing the Dixie Flag's history, and this young girl's thoughts become totally irrelevant when followed by a ghoulish skeleton draped in the flag with blood dripping off a sickle.  "Love, always and forever my heritage"......what a legacy and I gather it's not intentionally ironic.

*****

 

I just ran across your site and it may have been a long time ago, but I noticed someone commented on keeping the rebel flags out of schools because it may start a riot.  I think the problem does not have anything to do with the flag itself but with the ignorance passed down from generation to generation.  My son is 8 years old and wears rebel flags regularly and if you ask him what it stands for he will tell you that it is a Southern Battle Flag…He can even give you more history on the war than I’m sure you know.  Instead of teaching your children to continue with your hatred educate them not to.  Whether it offends or not it is a part of history.  We don’t stop teaching kids about the holocaust because it may offend a Jewish person.  Children are not pre programmed to feel hatred based on color, parents teach that.  So instead of expecting the school to hide the past from your children, educate them on how stupid segregation was, on how much the world has changed and on how they can continue to change it. Don’t blame a piece of cloth for racism blame you ancestors. Don’t hide your children from the past let them learn from it.  A rebel flag is part of a heritage not part of hatred.  Kind of like Malcolm X who spread hatred with theories like, it’s ok for blood to be shed as long as it’s the white man bleeding.  (I don’t see anyone making kids stop wearing his shirts at school.)  I don’t want to get into an argument over Malcolm X, but if you’re going to hide kids from the past hide them from all of it… It’s ok to teach your kids about the man who thought killing white America was worth the price of freedom, but by God don’t tell those kids the truth that the whole Civil war started based on the fact that the South wanted to become independent from the North. The war began in 1861 when Southern states declared themselves independent by secession and formed the Confederacy.  It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery. The reason they joined the Army was because of the constitutional argument over whether or not a state had a right to leave the Union, and--of primary concern to most southern soldiers--the continuation of antebellum southern culture.  The farmers of the south wanted “state rights” (it was the politicians in the south that wanted the right to own slaves) so as the southern farmers fought for freedom from the union the politicians secretly fought for the right to own slaves. The Southern farmers who fought weren’t even wealthy enough to own slaves. So basically the whole south and its flag have been labeled because of political misjudgment.  The president is from Houston why don’t we blame Texas for the war in Iraq so in 50 years when our children’s children are learning the significance of their past maybe Texas flags will be banned from school because of the ignorance of a politician and because of the misguided story telling of uneducated parents. CC.

*****

I'm a Junior in High School in a small WV town. Recently we were told that they would start bearing down on those who wore the rebel flag and that a boy was recently suspended for wearing one. I have a rebel flag t-shirt that says " If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson" as previously stated. I plan to go back to school wearing that shirt after this weekend to prove to administrators that they will NOT take away our freedom to wear the confederate flag. I refused to be wronged because selective others have to make it a racial issue, and if that means getting suspended, then that's what it will be. I searched the meaning of the rebel flag, so that if and when I get sent to the office for my punishment, I would have a good speach and pleanty of proof to back it up. That's when I stumbled across your site and this article. I think it's amazing! You were extremely precise in everything you said and I really wish as i'm sure yourself and many of the others who posted on here, that some of these hard headed people that still believe that confederate means racist would take a minute to really listen to the real story!  You should be proud of yourself for writing this article. I commend you on it! Most Sincerley, Christina Bourelle ( C.L.B.), West Virginia

*****

Hey Tony-
    My name is Blake I am 17yrs.old and i think that if the black kids can wear Malcom X shirts then we have just as much of a right to wear the rebel flag.  My ancestors fought in the civil war its heritage for me and pride.  **Southern By the Grace of God**
 
Blake

*****

hey yall i agree with everything you wrote i live in kansas but my family came from arkansas and texas andi fly the rebel flag but whenever i see somebody i
dont know they think i am racist but my cousin who is also a really good friend is black so how can i be racist i am in summer school and i have to do a
persuasive speech so i decided to do it over heritage not hate. CF

*****

-
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 6:56 AM
Subject: My High school

 
First off EXCELLENT site I have been trying to find all the sites that  defend the REBEL FLAG and yours is one of many you have my assurance on
 that. I agree with all the e-mails that say the banning of rebel flags in any place is total bull it is a symbol of southern history music and
 heritage and it should not be banned. I have just recently graduated from my high school in Southern Missouri where we were allowed to wear anything with
 the rebel flag on it, and said the Pledge every monday unedited and believe me I was always the first to stand up and put my hand over my heart and say
 it, and I wore my shirts with the Flag on it every week without fail. I have two stories to tell from my high school that involve the Flag. 1 On the
 first day of my Junior year I won a Rick Steiner T-shirt( he is a very famous Pro Wrestler and I am a very huge fan of wrestling) that on the back
 said "If you don't like me bite me"(his catch-phrase). I wore it for the first three periods and walking into fourth period my English teacher told
 me that I would have to change it or turn it inside out well I came prepared for this situation , thanks to some advice from my wonderful mother, I said
 okay I will I went to my locker and got one of my shirts with the Rebel Flag on it and changed. I walked back into the class and just sat down not a word
 was said but it turns out that my English teacher was originally from Mississippi a fact that I thought was hilarious. 2 This story occured this
 school year my Senior year I was sitting talking to my friends during lunch and I saw a female friend of mines boyfriend walk into the gym where
 everyone hangs out during lunch and I saw him wearing a shirt with a Rebel Flag on it I thought okay he just gained some respect and I didn't pay much
 attention to him until I heard him say "OH I'm not a rebel I think they're (rebels) all idiots" I turned around and asked Then why are you
 wearing that shirt He then told me I only wear it 'cause it's cool I then got very angry and got right in his face and told him I don't ever want to
 see you wearing anything with a Rebel Flag on it ever again. We went back and forth for a little while until we were eventually yelling at each other
 then my Principal a man I highly respect and a pretty good sized boy and my history teacher another man I respect and a really big dude he's 6'8" and
 probably 275 walk over and both of them break it up and the friend's boyfriend walked out of the gym talking smack the entire way, anyway after
 talking with both of them I settled down and went to class but to make a long story somewhat shorter he has never wore anything with the Flag on it
 or even talked about it. Those were both entertaining times sure but the last one got me to thinking I don't want my Flag worn by people who are
 wearing it  just to "look cool". If you know the history and the meaning behind the Flag then BY GOD WEAR and FLY it with SOUTHERN PRIDE and if you
 feel like it drop me a line and tell me how you feel about it at shanerowland45@hotmail.com I check my e-mail about once a week. Once again
 Tony EXCELLANT site I love it and keep on doin' what you're doin'. Yours Truly, Shane Rowland (please post on your site and PLEASE USE MY FULL NAME) Born a  rebel, Raised a rebel, and BY GOD when I Die I'll die a true to the cause unreconstructed REBEL. Keep flying those stars and bars people one day the world will realize we were correct but if they don't it won't matter because we'll know we were right all along.
 
Hi Shane,

Thanks for your Rebel Flag stories which I'll put on the site as you wrote them.

 
I come from, and live in, London, England, but have visited Dixie several times. I love the people and the culture, especially the musical heritage of both the white and black folks. Wherever rock'n'roll, rockabilly or Country Music is played, anywhere in the world, you will see the Rebel Flag displayed. The Yankees never produced anything to match the richness and wide variety of music from the Deep South, so only the Dixie flag can identify us with this heritage.  
 
My advice to anyone who can't accept the Confederate Flag - get over it and learn to live with it. You can't ban flags just because they are sometimes misused or because some people have a problem with them. There was talk recently of banning the British Union Flag (our national flag) for similar reasons - i.e. it is used by racist organizations, it represents the oppression of blacks and other colonial peoples in the old British Empire, etc.. Of course it is impossible, you have to 'reclaim' such symbols and many black people proudly wear the British Union Flag and the Dixie Rebel Flag. You can't deny people flags which represent their heritage, and that applies to the Welsh, Scottish, Basque, Catalan, Kurdish and a lot of other flags representing areas now absorbed into bigger countries, just as the CSA was re-absorbed into the USA. But Dixie still exists, so do its people, its heritage and its flag!
 
Tony

*****

Hello Tony,
Yea thank you so much for what you wrote about the Dixie Flag! Here's the thing : i'm french and i've been a country music fan for all my life and i offen go to the US, i have many friends there and i was (and i'm still) very interested in the american history. I'm playing country music as well and i'm using Mypsace to promote myself and i had some argument with some narrow-minded guys because i'm using the Rebel Flag. And it really hurts my feelings  when people think  i'm racist and stuff coz to me the Rebel Flag, as you perfectly said, means nothing but all the beautiful things that the southern culture had brought to the world and has nothing to do with that slavery matter. As a french fellow, i know a bunch about slavery, colonies and stuff and the motto of my country has been LIBERTE EGALITE FRATERNITE (which is kinda easy to understand i guess) since 1789, so it makes me really sad when some people don't get my use of the dixie flag.
As i often reply, the apartheid in South Africa has been abolished since 1994, does it mean that its flag therefore means slavery and racism? i don't think so. Every country has its own history, its own bad past so let's not mix it up without thinking and let's focus on the good things brought by all these countries' history.
Your article really reassured me and i'm gonna post a link on my profile, so thanx again.

Sorry for my english but i bet you got what i meant.
Take care,
Florian.

I agree with you, though the South African flag is not a good example to quote since they changed the design after the apartheid era. The French tricolor or British Union Flag would be better examples of flags with a racist/colonial history which are nevertheless quite legitimate and reclaimed by blacks and liberal whites.
 

I really enjoyed your website.  I have lived and continue to live with the stigma that I am racist due soley to the fact that I am a proud

Of my heritage and refuse to let someone make me feel inferior because I stand tall about it,  which to me is the real face of the

Rebel flag.  The problem with our nation rests on the notion that we cannot hurt someones feelings, that we have to be politically correct in

order to exist in this world.  When we should be teaching the truth and teaching people to believe in themselves and their heritage. 

Malcom X shirts, Mexican flag shirts as well as the rebel flag can be offensive to anyone who is not fully aware of the truth behind the symbol.

I am extremely tired of saying – “no I am no racist, I have many wonderful black friends just like I have many wonderful white friends.”

The ignorance should be what is offensive.  I think the flag needs to be left alone.  It represents a time in history that defined who were are

now.  Because I am proud of that and choose to wear that pride on my chest is no different to me than walking around with a “I love Jesus”

shirt.  It is who I am, I am not ashamed of that flag now will I ever be. 

 

Thanks for your soundboard.

 

Tamara Copeland

*****

 
Subject: it sux to b u and me

 
dear friend all thought and sight of the flag enrages me and if i were the president i would ban it.  i believe that the lack of education (which is replaced by ignorance in the south) makes ur cause no cause. i dont care what u say and what any of your other sympathizers say the flag stands for hate and only hate. try not being white and seeing that flag.  p.s. if u think black people really like that piece of toilet paper u r wrong.  
Sorry you feel that way, but as I've said before many times, you can't ban flags which have always represented a recognized clearly defined geographical area. This is what the Dixie flag does. No matter what you feel, it is NOT a political flag in the same sense as the Nazi swastika flag or the Soviet hammer and sickle flag, which were designed by the ruling authoritarian political party and had no roots at all in the geographical areas they were supposed to represent, which were undefined and expanding. The Nazi flag was used to represent not only Nazi Germany and Austria, but all the other countries that were occupied by the Nazi regime. The Soviet flag represented the 15 republics of the Soviet Union, including the Baltic States which were annexed in the Second World War. They were therefore really the flags of a political regime, not of any geographical area or country.
 
If you can't see this, then you are denying history. The 13 stars on the Dixie flag represent the 13 states of the South which at one time broke away from the Union to form the Confederacy, as they had every right to do, whatever the issues were which caused them to seek secession. Now they are all in the Union, they still have as much right to their geographical flag as the Scots and Welsh do in the British union, or the individual countries do which make up the European Union. We have not given up our national flags for the blue and gold EU flag, and it is totally unreasonable to expect any nation to do so. The Southern States are a nation as recognizable as the Scots or Welsh, very distinct from the Yankee North in your country. People of all races in the South should therefore claim the Dixie flag as their own.
 
As I've also said before, extreme right-wing and racist groups use the British Union flag, the French Tricolor,  etc. to represent their views. It is therefore up to non-racists to CLAIM/RECLAIM their flag. The same applies to the Dixie flag. If Jewish people were able to claim or reclaim the hated Nazi yellow star to represent their suffering under the Nazi regime, and we gays were able to claim/reclaim the hated Nazi pink triangle in the same way, blacks in the South must claim the Dixie flag as their own and be proud to be part of the Southern heritage within the Union. Or else they must just live with it - you can't take people's flags and other symbols away from them. However, if blacks claim the Dixie flag as their own, to represent their own Southern heritage and their own suffering, then racists will have difficulty using the flag as a symbol of racial hatred.
 
Besides all this, the Dixie flag is now recognized thruout the world as a symbol of the musical culture of the South. It was shown on BBC TV during a program about Country Music. It is seen everywhere 1950s rock'n'roll (by both black and white artists from the South) and rockabilly music is played. It simply CAN'T be banned.
 
The next step from banning flags is burning books you don't like, and then you are into dictatorship and even civil war.
 
Isn't it enough that the South is now fully integrated into the Union and that segregation/slavery are just a bad memory from the distant past? Don't try and take away the Southern flag as well, the ONLY symbol, repeat, the ONE AND ONLY SYMBOL which represents the culturally rich geographical entity of Dixie. 
 
I will put your remarks on the Website to continue this long-running debate.
 
Tony (from London, England)

*****

Tony,
 
Something to think about:
 
Look at a black person if you think N**ger than
Look at a Rebel Flag if you think Racism
Then it is the same thing same
You are judging by the Color period end of story
 
I am a Yankee girl all the way
I proud drive around my car
with a number 8 Nascar driver decal
A huge Redwing hockey decal (for of course Yankee thang)
And two Rebel flags on each side of my car.
 
I work with black I have friends that are black and if they ask me?
 
I say the flag represents:
PRIDE, and standing up for what you believe in.
Just like proud to be an American where at least I know I am free.
It is same thing it stands for PROUD to be a Southerner. 
 
Pride and Freedom. Is what I tell them.
THESE COLORS DON"T RUN.
 
Thank you
Yankee by birth right, Southern by Pride.
 

Thanks for this poem. When I look at the Rebel Flag I think of Rockabilly, 1950s rock'n'roll, of Dixie and all the wonderful music and artists (black and white) who come from there.

 
Tony (English by birth, Southern by cultural heritage)

*****

Hi Tony!
 

Occasionally I look around on your website, and I must say it's a great variety, you really dig deep into a lot of subjects. That's really cool! By the time I'll retire, I hope to have something similar to have learned in my leisure.

 

Especially the article, comments, and your comments on the comments, on the Rebel Flag is very interesting. I'm reading a couple of books on the Civil War, and it adds something to it. I think the general idea that the flag would be the symbol of pro-slavery / racism is not really as much connected to the original meaning of the flag. The war was, in the first 1.5 years, not about slavery at all -- about independence of the Southern States. Anyway, you obviously know the story, but I find it really interesting too.

 

Now that you don't have to go to work everyday, you won't need to keep your CSA flag at home, because of your black colleague ;-)
 
It's amazing that so many young teenagers are having so much trouble at school with the flag.
 

Anyway, once again a happy retirement, and I think your site is definitely something you oughta keep going!

 
Best wishes,
Sebastian

*****

Subject: Interesting point
 
Hi Tony;

Thanks for articulating your points in this essay. I was initially researching to attack some of my friends that are sporting the confederate flag, but a few pieces of information (arguing in favor) here are barely refutable.

One of the major reoccurring themes that appear in the following discourse are that of re-shaping ones thinking in terms of an icon like the rebel flag. To which I agree - icons can absolutely be appropriated for different purposes. However, to ignore the larger social perception or to make a claim that "you need to educate yourself on history" is admittedly an empty one, knowing that people will not. This is going to be the challenge for those that fly the flag.

I am actually in a similar battle with the Stars and Stripes right now. I am strongly liberal, very much against the war and very much against our (elected?) president. However, if I were to sport the American flag, the culture around it causes people to interpret the symbol in an opposite fashion. The American flag is not just a symbol of patriotism - it is a symbol used against liberals. I am much more patriotic than most people that I know and actually have been to other countries and recognize that indeed, this is one of the best places to live. I love my country and in such challenge the decisions that my representatives make. I'll get off my soapbox for this issue, but just wanted to give what I consider to be a similar issue.

You've changed my mind and reinforced my battle. Keep flying the rebel flag and I'll keep trying to convince people that real patriots don't wave the flag while their rights go down the tubes.

Cheers!
Dustin
 
Many thanks for your contribution to this great debate. I think the Rebel Flag is seen rather differently abroad to how it is seen by some of the Afro-American population in the Deep Southern states. They see it as a symbol of slavery, elsewhere it is seen as the only flag which represents Southern culture and heritage.
 
This was clearly demonstrated when that most impartial and politically correct organization, the BBC, displayed the Confederate Flag in a program about the Queens of Country Music. They could not have used any other symbol because there simply IS none which represents Southern culture such as Country Music.
 
Tony

*****

Tony, thanks for your website. The more we can educate people, the better. I would like to clarify some points I noticed from your readers. Northern Revisionist history has to be straightened out. Most of the misconceptions about the “Rebel” flag are a result of ignorance, lack of education and history books published in the north. Most people confuse the “Rebel” and the “Confederate” flags. Most people also do not understand the real reason for the “Civil War.”

The “Stars and Bars” is the National Flag of the confederacy. The “Southern Cross” is the Rebel Flag, usually confused with the “Confederate Flag” but never a national flag of the Confederacy. After the war began, the south actually had 2 different flags of “The Confederacy.” This was due to both Union and Southern flags looking very similar, especially if there was no wind to blow the flag. It created much confusion, unnecessary loss of life so they adopted the “Battle Flag” to fly (such as the British Navy had been doing for years) to differentiate themselves from the north. The flag was not even used until early 1863, 2 years after the war began.

Why did the war begin? Not due to slavery. Southern states had noticed European nations begin to free slaves because it was inhumane and began freeing slaves as early as 1850. If you read the Emancipation Proclamation, it only freed “oppressed” slaves in the south. Even Lincoln is quoted in a speech stating, “this war is not being fought over slavery, it is being fought for the Union.” The north feared losing the South’s crops agriculture, since the North needed it for their industry. Also, no slave ships were owned by any one in the south. There were northern owners. Most of the slave ships brought slaves to the West Indies and South America. Only a small percentage came to America. Also, did you know there were more “indentured servants,” a more politically correct term for “slave”, that were of Hispanic, Irish and Native American descent than African descent? Why don’t we read that in the history books?  Have you ever heard of a group called “The Sons of Confederate Veterans”? This is a southern heritage group that wears the Confederate uniform, flies the Rebel Flag and attends many events. Can you believe they have several black members that wear the uniform and carry the flag? It is because of “Heritage, not Hate” that they do this. The war was not fought over slavery, it was fought over commerce. The flag has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with identifying a heritage. The slaves were also a huge investment, most southerners did not even own one, so why would they want to bring them harm. Slavery is more about working off their payment for their freedom. Most slave owners gave them a house and land after their payment was fulfilled. Most southerners worked side by side their slaves, to live, because they had to. Also, did you know the last slave owned, well after the war ended, was in the north?

Anyway, I could go on, but I think there is enough here for your readers to at least start their own education process. I hope they do and I hope they help spread the word.

Thank you!

Robert Bean

Thanks very much for this important and interesting contribution to the debate. I'll upload it to the Webpage very shortly.
 
Tony

Our accepted “Stars and Stripes” flew over a slave nation for 80 years. Why not condemn this flag and ask for a new one? It is unfair. It is a symbol of unity. It does not make it a bad “flag” anyway. It is a symbol, just as the “Rebel” flag and all of our state flags. Is anyone asking Texas to change their flag because it offends Mexico? No. Also, the KKK flies the “Stars and Stripes” always, much more often is the US flag seen than the “Rebel” flag.

To the reader that posted the “Swastika” comment. It used to be a religious symbol, until Hitler tilted it and ruined it’s reputation. The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix. Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.  The swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.

The aviator Matilde Moisant (1878–1964) was wearing a swastika medallion in 1912. The symbol was popular as a good luck charm with early aviators. A swastika was also painted on the inside of the nosecone of the Spirit of St. Louis  (Thanks to “wikipedia”)

 We should stop people from ruining the truths about history. We must educate them. If you see something you don’t like, or understand, ask about it instead of screaming or crying about it. Maybe you will learn something. Part of our freedoms are the right to free speech, which includes expression. As an American, a true American, and I am a Native American that has ancestors who were slaves and marched on the Trail of Tears, we have the responsibility to teach our children the truth, all of it, the good and the bad. We also have the responsibility to  

 

Thank you!

Robert Bean |  DOBE/PD

*****

Subject: understanding

OK here's the problemI have, my mom is a Northerner my dad a Southerner me and my brothers were born down South (Fl), the three of us wave the Rebel Flag with pride our grandparents told us the meaning behind the flag when we were little, everything not just what they wonted us to know, and I feel that the flag stands for Southern pride all the way.  I have one in my yard right next to my red white and blue and one hanging in my living room. My mother on the other hand says I should not teach my kids to love something that shows so much hate! She is very hard headed and doesn't like to hear me when I say that I'm proud to be Southern. So should my kids my husband and her bump heads because he to is from the south? Well let's just say Thanksgiving is not really fun when we all get together because everybody has their own veiws on the matter. I'm stuck. I don't want to teach my kids that it's not OK to be proud of who and what you are. It's a shame the schools here are already doing that. Anyway how can I keep the peace with my mom's family (all Northerners) and my family (all Southerners) and show my kids the differences? They really don't know what the big deal is and I tried to explain it on both my part and my mother's and I don't like that fact that we have to fight every time someone says something about the flag

thank you

mm  

Tony's reply:

 

Being English, I find it hard to advise you. Here the Rebel Flag just means Southern culture, in particular 1950s style rock'n'roll and rockabilly (by both black and white artists), and Country Music.
 
Flags mean all things to all people. So all flags can be regarded as 'racist' or 'nationalist', and can be used as such symbols. They can also be symbols of a people's culture and heritage.
 
That's all I can really say. I'll add your comments to the others on this Webpage, and you'll see if you read them a lot of people feel like you, and me. Geographical flags, i.e. flags which represent a geographical area, a nation, a country or a people rather than just a purely political ideology cannot be banned or labeled 'racist' etc.
 
The Nazi Swastika flag was 'racist'. It never represented a culture, a heritage or a nation - it was a flag designed especially for the National Socialist Party of Germany (Nazi Party) incorporating a reversed Indian symbol of good luck, the swastika.
 
The Soviet 'hammer and sickle' flag similarly never represented Russia or any of the other nations which formed the Soviet Union before the 1917 Revolution. It was a purely political flag designed by the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and then adopted as the national flag of the USSR.
 
The flag of the People's Republic of China is similar - a political red flag with 5 gold stars. Purely political.
 
On the other hand, the flags of all the former Socialist countries of Eastern and Central Europe - Romania, East Germany, Hungary, Yugoslavia, whilst they contained political symbols such as red stars, etc. - also incorporated the historical national flags of these countries. So these flags were not purely political. Consequently the flags remain, minus the political symbols. If any of these countries return to Socialism, then maybe the political symbols will be restored.
 
I was a member of the Communist Party at one time, therefore I approved of the political flags of all these Socialist countries. Nevertheless I can see the difference between political flags, and geographical/historical/heritage flags.
 
I assure you the Confederate Flag is in the second category. There are no political symbols contained in it whatsoever. It represents 13 original states of the Confederacy it is true, but it does not represent any political ideology other than the Dixie nation, which for a few brief years tried to secede from the Union. It is therefore still valid and legitimate as a symbol of Southern culture and heritage.

*****

.

While your article contains much truth is does not, fact, contain the whole truth as to the Confederacy and slavery. Included is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

 

Four of the seceding states, the Deep South states of South Carolina[1], Mississippi[2], Georgia [3], and Texas[4], issued formal declarations of causes, each of which identified the threat to slaveholders’ rights as the cause of, or a major cause of, secession; Georgia also claimed a general Federal policy of favoring Northern over Southern economic interests. In what later came to be known as the Cornerstone Speech, C.S. Vice President Alexander Stephens, declared that the "cornerstone" of the new government "rest[ed] upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth"

 The Confederacy, by its own admission, was based on white supremacy values and was therefore a racist nation. As such, ALL of its emblems and symbols are recognized as those of racist origin.

 Having lived for years in the south, I have never known anyone who was not racist (or at least sympathized with them)  to have flown a rebel flag.

Darren H

Hi there Darren,
 
Thanks for your historical contribution, which I'll add to the webpage under the ever-growing 'comments' section. This article was written years ago, and I'm surprised it is still generating comments from Americans.
 
Whatever you say, whatever the history, outside the USA the Confederate Flag has an entirely different meaning, and is seen wherever 1950s style rock'n'roll, rockabilly and often Country Music is played.
 
And I STILL ask the eternal question: if the Confederate Flag is non-pc then what can possibly replace it as the symbol of Dixie? Don't say the Stars and Stripes, as those of us who love the rich musical heritage of the Southern States want a symbol, a flag which ONLY represents the states South of the Mason-Dixon line. I really don't see why they should be singled out from all the areas in the world as the ONLY one not allowed a flag because of their racist history. Even Cornwall, a tiny English country with a Celtic background and a nationalist movement, has its own flag, as do the Welsh, and the Basque and Catalonian areas of Spain.
 
Even if everyone you know who flies the Rebel Flag has racist sympathies, that does not stop non-racists in the South from claiming the flag for themselves. This would be the ONLY way to purge its racist connexions. And, as you will see from the 'comments' section of my article, some blacks also fly or display the flag in the Deep South - are they too racist? Many blacks also voted to keep the Confederate Flag in the State flag of Mississippi otherwise the pro-flag lobby could never have won the referendum. Georgia also, at one time quite recently, incorporated the Confederate Flag in its State flag. So everyone and every institution which flew the State flags in Ms/Ga were 'racist'?
 
I really don't see how the Confederacy was any more racist that the USA, Britain or a host of other nations. They ALL endorsed slavery at one time, and countries like Britain had an empire and treated its 'subjects' overseas as sub-human. Britain invented the concentration camp in India. So if the Confederate Flag is banned, so should the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack and many other nations' flags.
 
However, I see you now live in Canada and your countrymen designed the maple leaf flag to replace the old one incorporating the Union Jack. Perhaps you could help design a new flag for Dixie which meets with your approval?

Further correspondence with Darren:

While I agree that many nations have had an atrocious record on slavery and either actively embraced it or worse yet, claimed to be against it yet made profit indirectly from it. It was the fact that the Confederacy main purpose was the continuation of the slave state that makes it an issue. A perfect example is the fact that Mississippi only ratified the 13th amendment in 1995, a full 130 years after it became part of the constitution. The states all have state flags (if they include a confederate flag within that, that’s fine with me) In the U.S. we are not in the habit of flying defeated flags on government buildings. That’s why you don’t see the Union Jack on the White House flag pole. As to other symbols of the south they could use the Magnolia on a banner, t-shirt, etc. as it ONLY grows in the states that made up the confederacy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a liberal, I think it was wrong of Disney to keep Song of the South in the vault (because it was somehow demeaning to blacks). I just think there is a much more appropriate symbol for southern culture and music. Darren.

 

I'll add your latest comments to the debate. Being a non-American I don't think I should join the debate on a suitable flag/symbol to replace the Confederate Flag, which is deeply entrenched in Southern heritage, except to say magnolia trees are most certainly seen in England and probably in other countries. However it may well be a suitable symbol for the Southern states.
 
Whilst Americans may not fly defeated flags on federal buildings, the State flag of Mississippi, including the Dixie flag, presumably flies on official Ms State buildings, as the once similar Ga State flag did in that State, and indeed as the Hawaiian State flag, incorporating the Union Jack, flies over official State buildings in Hawaii.
 
I'm not sure what this has got to do with the CSA's racist connexions; perhaps the dislike of the Rebel Flag has more to do with the fact that most Americans see it as the flag of a defeated 'enemy', and is so somehow unpatriotic.

*****

hey Tony,
I have been meaning to ask some of my other friends about this.
I definitely think that here in the states it still has a strong
meaning of racism.
I do see a few guys have belts with the flag, or on posters now and then.
It wasn't that long ago that one of the states still had it on their
state flag, and it was removed because of the racist meaning it had.
It was the flag for the confederate states during our civil war, the
states that were fighting to keep slavery. So to me it's meaning is
one of racism.  (From an American Rockabilly fan).

I'll put your comments on the Website. It is quite disappointing to hear American rockabillies also think the flag is 'racist'. I also understand that whilst Georgia removed the CSA flag from their State flag, it remains on the Mississippi flag, after most people in that state (including many blacks) voted for it to be kept.
 
Whether the Southern States were fighting mainly to secede from the Union, or to keep slavery, matters not one jot. It is all ancient history, and the Rebel Flag remains the only one to represent Southern heritage and culture. Rockabillies all over the world identify with it, as do rock'n'roll fans. The Stars'n'Stripes are hardly ever seen at rock'n'roll/rockabilly venues since Yankees contributed relatively little to the music, apart from the doo-wop groups from New York and a few others. Even Bill Haley, who hailed from Michigan, was immersed in Southern culture, singing and playing Country'n'Western Music with the Saddlemen before latching on to Southern rhythm'n'blues/rock'n'roll.
 
Whatever, rockabillies/rock'n'roll/Country fans around the world have claimed the flag as our own and this CANNOT be changed EVER!!! Blacks and liberals in the South had better do the same because you can't wipe such geographical flags, tied up with heritage, culture and tradition, from the face of the Earth.

*****

hmmm...don't mean to stir the pot here Tony, but in reference to your comment; then is it ok to start waving the swastika flag around the way the Nazi's intended it to be? I mean, after all, as you put it, "It is all ancient history", right? And by making a statement such as "Blacks and liberals in the South had better do the same", isn't that a contradiction of everything you're trying to defend?

Raul
beeeatnik

I don't really want to continue the debate in depth here (i.e. a gay rockabilly Yahoo group). Please see the link to my webpage in my original email. All I was trying to do was ascertain whether American rockabillies use the Confederate Flag, or what they think of non-American rockabillies who use it to identify with our kind of music.
 
But briefly, the Nazi swastika flag, and the Soviet hammer and sickle flag, were purely party political flags identifed with the Nazi (National Socialist) Party of Germany and the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. They never represented any countries or geographical areas, apart from the purely political entities of the Third Reich and the Soviet Union.
 
The Dixie flag, on the other hand, represents a geographical area, a separate culture, heritage and history all of which amounts to nationhood: Dixie is a nation within the United States. It therefore has as much right to its own flag as Wales, Scotland, Cornwall, the Basque country, Catalonia or a host of other nations within nations.
 
The fact that the CSA was a slave-owning confederation seems irrelevant - so was the USA at one stage, and countries like Britain had an imperialist empire and treated its overseas subjects like slaves in their own countries, or worse. Many were massacred, others were sent to America from the British Empire as slaves. So you cannot single out the Dixie flag because it was connected with slavery: why not the Stars'n'Stripes and Union Jack too, as well as many other flags?
 
Extreme rightwing and racist organizations in the UK such as the Empire Loyalists, later the National Front and now the British National Party used/use the Union Jack as their symbol (the National Front had a slogan: 'ain't no black in the Union Jack'), but the national flag is not banned as a result. In France Le Pen's National Front racist party use the French tricolor, but the French flag is not banned. The KKK in the USA display both the Dixie flag and the Stars'n'Stripes - so what? Why is the Dixie flag the only one singled out to be banned?
 
The only sensible course of action is for blacks and liberals in the South to claim the national Dixie flag for their own, as I say, the same as gays claimed the Nazi pink triangle and turned it into a symbol of gay liberation. It was used by the Gay Liberation Front in UK for years.
 
The swastika, by the way, is an ancient Asian (Indian) symbol of good luck with religious connexions. Hitler was superstitious which is probably why the Nazis used it, but reversed it. This just shows how symbols can change their meaning.
 
The Dixie flag, in music venues around the world, means one of three things: rockabilly music, 1950s rock'n'roll or traditional Country Music.
 
Tony

*****

From an American gay rockabilly fan:

Hey Tony,
 
I'm originally from North Carolina.  My father's side of the family fought (and died) fighting for the Confederacy, and my mother's side of the family owned slaves at one point.  Meanwhile I'm a bit of a 'dark horse' in my family, as I'm gay and moved out of the South.  I've not had a strong connection to the Confederate flag, as it was used as a call-to-arms for many Southern racial types.  But as I listened to more and more rockabilly...and came to terms with my family's history (socio-economic mainly...), I started to develop an affinity to the flag.  For it symbolizes - to me (not to a lot of politically correct types), a cultural heritege (esp. musically and culinary) of which I'm a part.
 
And actually I've seen several bands use it ... Seattle's Redneck Girlfriend (they're friend's of Gary's)...I've seen on stage here in NYC with The Belmont Playboys.  And I'm pretty sure they even have a Confederate flag (or two) at my barber shop in Brooklyn (Tomcats).
 
Hope your holidays were merry.  And have a happy 2008.  David, my fiancee, and I hope to get hitched in Scotland, in our family's tartaned kilts. So hopefully we'll see you in the next year, when we set all that up.  I'm sure a few folks click their tongues at the thought of a Yank getting married in traditional Scotsman gear.  But we're such Anglophiles, with family's originating in Scotland. And our tartans don't 'clash' either ;-)
 
Cheers,
 
Mitch

 

Thanks for your reply, Mitch. May I add it to the comments on my website article about the Flag? I knew the others couldn't be telling the whole truth when they claimed they'd never seen a Rebel Flag at any rockabilly gigs.
 
I'm sitting here with Chris de Bruin, also a member of the gay greasers group.
 
I was really surprised at the controversy and long-running debate, now going on for many years, on this subject. The article was first published 6 years ago, and is STILL generating comments.

*****

I don't see why they are allowed to ban the Confederate Flag from school. So many people think that it represents hate. Guess what it does not. It represents Southern Heritage. It is stupid that they can fly the American Flag in school but not the Confederate flag. You people know that the North/ Yankee states had slaves to right. So this means that the American Flag to people means slavery. My question is why can the American flag ( which had slavery to) can be flown in schools and the Confederate Flag not allowed in schools. I say don't listen to the schools and wear them any how. They should not be able to discriminate the flag of our heritage. T.
 

Thanks, comments added to the others. Gay Yankee rockabilly fans in California, New York, etc. claim never ever to have seen the Rebel Flag at rockabilly venues, but they are lying. I've left this 'gay greasers' site because of these shallow-minded Yankees who think the Rebel Flag is unpatriotic and racist. They insult anyone who defends the flag as a symbol of Southern heritage.

 
They are hypocrites, because everywhere rockabilly music is played, the Rebel Flag is prominently on display.

*****

Hello,
 
I read the many posts on your website regarding the battle flag of the Confederacy, and how it has been deemed by neoliberal socialists as a "racist" symbol.  I'm glad that, in your article, you related how the US flag has also "earned" justification of a "racist" label, though Americans prefer not to see the flag in that light.
Indeed, slavery existed in this land from 1619.  The Colonies and their fledgeling government practiced slavery.  The new government of the United States not only condoned slavery, it profited from it tremendously; from the Northern slave merchants and ship owners, the US government profited from the Atlantic Slave Trade directly and indirectly.  Directly in the importation and sale of slaves, and indirectly from increasingly high taxation and teriffs placed upon all goods produced with slave labor.  Lincoln himself even admitted not only the true reason for invading the South, but the reliance the US had upon Southern taxation when, upon being asked why he would not let the South go in peace, replied, "If I let the South go, who will pay for government?" Indeed, the wealth gained from Southern export was enormous.  The CAUSE of the War Between the States (it was never a "civil war" in that such exists when two political factions vie for control of a government.  The South sought INDEPENDENCE from the US government, not control of it! Further, calling it "civil war" merely reinforces the myth of the war being over slavery which began when Lincoln played his admitted "Last card" - the Emancipation Proclamation - in 1863.  It is by no coincidene that the "civil" in "civil war" is intended to create, in the minds of the government-schooled, a coorelation with civil rights) is quite simple: the South sought independence from a government which had gone astray from that Constitutional republic envisioned by the Founding Fathers, taxation had become exorbitant, and the South was willing to exercise their constitutional right to break unity with the US government - even at the point of war - just as their grandfathers had done when the Colonies seceded from British rule.  If the South had been permitted to go peacefully, the United States would have lost tremendous fortunes derived from Southern economy.  So determined was Lincoln to prevent the South from leaving the union that he sent armed troops into border states like Maryland to prevent their legislatures from voting to secede.  Pro-secession politicians were arrested.  Northern newspaper editors who supported secession - or were simply against federal military action - were arrested, and their newspapers shut down (arrests being warrantless, since Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and assumed the role of dictator).  The true reason the North invaded the South? Money.  And, I dare say Lincoln would not tolerate being the US president who saw the United States split in twain!  The Emancipation Proclamation was a political tool Lincoln used as a last resort (his speeches prior to his first inauguration clearly expressed that he had no plan to interfere with slavery; in fact, the Lincoln-Douglas debates clearly show not only Lincoln's claimed intention of not interfering with slavery, but also Lincoln's view of whites as being the "superior" race over blacks).  It was also the most successful public-relations campaign in the history of the US.  If it were now to be a war "to free the slave," not only would the (increasingly abolitionist) North more heartily support it, but any foreign governmental support (which the South desperately needed) would be prevented.  It was a genius stroke for Lincoln, and created the myth of the North going to war to abolish slavery that exists today (interesting side note that the announcement of the proclamation was met with outrage by many Union leaders, increased desertion by Union troops, and helped fuel the Northern draft riots).
It must not be denied that the horrible institution of slavery was certainly a factor in the War Between the States.  The North, becoming increasingly industrialized, had little need for slaves (though slave merchants kept their vessels active!), while the South, being agrarian, had the unfortunate need for slave labor (especially if they were to give the US government its' increasing large share in the form of aforementioned taxes!).  It is interesting to note the number of Union leaders who were slave owners, or whose families reaped profits from the slave trade.  In fact, 12 of the first 18 US presidents owned slaves, including U.S. Grant!
Myths perpetuate that one-in-three Confederate soldiers owned slaves.  In reality, it's estimated that nearly 85% of Confederates did not own slaves, and thus had no vested interest in the institution.  Of the 15% who did own slaves, around 13% owned only a few slaves - primarily house servants or workers of small family farms - while only the wealthy plantation owners - making up the remaining 3% - owned the vast majority of slaves (note that free black land owners were also often slave owners).  To this minority of wealthy slave owners, with the wherewithal influence politicians, the issue of slavery and the outcome of war was obviously vital.  But for the vast majority of Confederate soldiers, slavery was not an issue.  They fought to protect their home states, united in their new country, for the cause of liberty and out of patriotism when their respective states called them to service.  Realistically, the average soldier in the South would not have gone to war to protect the riches of the wealty upper class any more than men today would risk their lives on the battlefield to protect the wealth of Bill Gates, Ted Turner or Donald Trump!
The overwhelming percentage of white Americans in the mid 19th century regarded "the negro" as being inferior to whites.  Even abolitionists sought freedom, but not equality, for blacks.  The North, in fact, saw the general concensus that blacks migrating north would be a risk.  Newspapers warned of this possible migration with dire outcomes predicted.  Many town and cities in the north enacted laws preventing blacks from settling in their jurisdictions.  So much for the glorious image of Northerners awaiting the flood of the newly-emancipated with open arms!
When blacks were forced into Union service, white troops refused to have them in their ranks.  Companies were therefore made up of black soldiers - commanded by white captains.  These companies were often sent into battle first.  As the front lines obviously drew the initial fire first, it is obvious that the Union considered black soldiers more expendable than white soldiers.  In fact, many Confederates regarded this practice as the "Federals using the negro as cannon fodder"!
The myth that blacks did not serve in the Confederacy is just that: a myth.  Many Southern blacks, slave and free men, not only served as drovers, cooks and laborers, but also wore the gray and served courageously in battle.  While for decades the liberals and the NAACP have denied that blacks served the Confederacy, the renowned Walter E. Williams, in an article on black Confederates, cited numerous examples of black Confederate soldiers.  Mr Williams writes: "
During our War of 1861, ex-slave Frederick Douglass observed, "There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down . . . and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government."
Dr. Lewis Steiner, a Union Sanitary Commission employee who lived through the Confederate occupation of Frederick, Maryland said, "Most of the Negroes . . . were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederacy Army." Erwin L. Jordan's book Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia cites eyewitness accounts of the Antietam campaign of "armed blacks in rebel columns bearing rifles, sabers, and knives and carrying knapsacks and haversacks." After the Battle of Seven Pines in June 1862, Union soldiers said that "two black Confederate regiments not only fought but showed no mercy to the Yankee dead or wounded whom they mutilated, murdered and robbed."
In April 1861, a Petersburg, Virginia newspaper proposed "three cheers for the patriotic free Negroes of Lynchburg" after 70 blacks offered "to act in whatever capacity may be assigned to them" in defense of Virginia. Erwin L. Jordan cites one case where a captured group of white slave owners and blacks were offered freedom if they would take an oath of allegiance to the United States. One free black indignantly replied, "I can't take no such oaf as dat. I'm a secesh nigger." A slave in the group upon learning that his master refused to take the oath said, "I can't take no oath dat Massa won't take." A second slave said, "I ain't going out here on no dishonorable terms." One of the slave owners took the oath but his slave, who didn't take the oath, returning to Virginia under a flag of truce, expressed disgust at his master's disloyalty saying, "Massa had no principles."
Horace Greeley, in pointing out some differences between the two warring armies said, "For more than two years, Negroes have been extensively employed in belligerent operations by the Confederacy. They have been embodied and drilled as rebel soldiers and had paraded with white troops at a time when this would not have been tolerated in the armies of the Union." General Nathan Bedford Forrest had both slaves and freemen serving in units under his command. After the war, General Forrest said of the black men who served under him "[T]hese boys stayed with me . . . and better Confederates did not live." Southern generals owned slaves but northern generals owned them as well. General Ulysses Grant's slaves had to await for the Thirteenth Amendment for freedom. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, General Grant said,"Good help is so hard to come by these days."
These are but a few examples of the important role that blacks served, both as slaves and freemen in the Confederacy during the War Between the States. The flap over the Confederate Flag is not quite as simple as the nation's race experts make it. They want us to believe the flag is a symbol of racism. Yes, racists have used the Confederate Flag, but racists have also used the Bible and the U.S. Flag. Should we get rid of the Bible and lower the U.S. Flag? Black civil rights activists and their white liberal supporters who're attacking the Confederate Flag have committed a deep, despicable dishonor to our patriotic black ancestors who marched, fought and died to protect their homeland from what they saw as Northern aggression. They don't deserve the dishonor."
Indeed, they deserve the honor they fought for courageously for! Yet, as long as teachers espouse the "government-approved" subjectivity called "American history," and as long as the Left has an agenda that must be carried out, the truth shall be kept from the general knowledge of the American people.
The Confederate flag is not, and has never been, a "racist symbol."  It has been stolen by true racists such as the Ku Klux Klan (as has the Holy Bible, the American flag, and the Christian cross) in their hate-filled perpetuation of "white supremace."  It has been wrongly used by individuals in connection with hateful acts (as, again, has the US flag and the Bible).  But the Confederate flag does not represent hatred, nor racism.  The Confederate flag represents a people - white, black, hispanic, native American; Christian, Catholic and Jew - who were proud Southerners.  The Confederate flag is a symbol of patriotism so absolute that the South was willing to secede and fight a horrible war to gain Liberty from a government gone astray from that envisioned by the Framers of the Constitution.  It represents the very apex of America: men and women of such courage and honor that they would stand up to the most powerful military on earth in the name of Independence.
Yet, the perpetuation of myths by liberals is necessary to forward their agenda.  Through "political correctness" they have demonized the flag of the Confederacy.  They seek to do away with the Confederate flag as well as free thought, freedom of speech, and the right of the People to keep and bear arms.  And their reasons are clear:
Socialist political power cannot gain a foothold in the United States as long as the People retain a love of individual liberty and independence from excessive governmental control.  Combine this passion for freedom with free speech and the means by which to fight against tyranny, and you have something neoliberal socialism cannot tolerate, nor dominate: the patriotic American.
Add the very symbol of unified resistance to a fascist government and totalitarian dictatorship - the Confederate flag - and you have the final insult to the liberal agenda.
Liberals essentially control the educational system and the news and entertainment media.  Their control of government is growing.  It thrives on the ignorance of the masses, their unwillingness to fight, and their indoctrination in the name of "political correctness."
The Confederate flag symbolizes the American intolerance of domination, thus it must be labelled an "offensive hate symbol" and done away with.
When the People realize all that the flag truly symbolizes, and the real reasons behind it's banning, I predict that it will grow in popularity as the symbol of rebellion against totalitarian forces which seek to control our very thoughts, words and actions.
And, in truth, that it all it has ever stood for!
 
In the Honor of Patriots,
 
Douglas Crouse
Tony's reply:
I have read similar analyses before. I do feel it unfortunate that your non-racist argument is rather spoiled by the following section:
 
One free black indignantly replied, "I can't take no such oaf as dat. I'm a secesh nigger." A slave in the group upon learning that his master refused to take the oath said, "I can't take no oath dat Massa won't take." A second slave said, "I ain't going out here on no dishonorable terms." One of the slave owners took the oath but his slave, who didn't take the oath, returning to Virginia under a flag of truce, expressed disgust at his master's disloyalty saying, "Massa had no principles."
 
This mode of speech seems to reinforce the racist argument and stereotype blacks. I feel it weakens your argument, suggesting that the blacks fighting in the Confederate Army were all ignorant, obedient slaves who accepted white supremacy.
 
However, my argument for not banning the Confederate Flag is based on the fact that many countries supported slavery, including the U.S. and UK, but their flags are not banned. The Confederate Flag is ONLY controversial because the Confederacy was defeated, and therefore frozen in the time of slavery. But many Southerners and lovers of the musical heritage of the South still see the Rebel Flag as the flag which represents Southern culture and history. There is no other flag which does this.
 
I am, incidentally, both a liberal and a Socialist, but I strongly support the right of Southerners and others to display the Dixie flag.
 

Hello Tony,

 
   I admit I did hesitate before relaying those quotes as taken directly from Mr Williams (who, as I'm sure you're aware, is black).  Indeed, the manner of speech, at least in today's eyes, appears to bespeak ignorance and submission.  Not ironically, considering the times and lack of education afforded blacks, I see the same manner of speech and allusion to subserviance amongst northern-born-and-raised blacks well after the War Between the States.  Unfortunately, the grammatical inflections exist rather broadly even today.
   I'm sure readers will react as you have.  I can understand that.  But, one need only to reflect upon how blacks were regarded - and, sadly, appeared to accept themselves as far as their apparent "lot in life" - until quite recently in our history, to somewhat dispell the "ignorance and submissiveness" aspect.  Even into the 1960s, a black man was called "boy," while blacks were expected to address white men with "sir."  And what was the travesty of "ebonics" but a weak attempt to legitiatize the English spoken commonly in the inner-city black communities as acceptable?
   It is painfully regrettable that, while the end of the WBTS brought an end to the horrible institution of slavery, blacks in the United States were still quite commonly treated as inferiors until the civil rights victories of the 1960s.  One hundred years between emancipation and social equality.
   So, I knowingly risked the points you mention because I'd rather quote accurately that edit or paraphrase.  I'm sure that a percentage of readers will understand.  After all, though many blacks have had no direct connection to the south for generations, distinctly Southern words like "y'all" and "holler" are part of the vocabulary, as are pronunciations such as "cain't" for "can't."  Interesting that some things are passed on, despite time, distance, and the availability of better education, isn't it?
 
   I must say I greatly respect and appreciate your views on the Confederate flag in the historical reference of slavery.  I have had so many discussions with liberals and socialists who perpetuate the "racist symbol" argument so vehemently that I've come to believe all "liberal socialists" are cut from the same cloth, so to speak.  Obviously, I am wrong.  I apologize for any affront, and thank you for opening my eyes.
 
Sincerely,
 
Douglas
 
Hi Douglas,
 
Thanks for the clarification, which is very useful.

I continue to be amazed at the ignorance of Northerners and many liberals who refuse to see the Dixie flag as a legitimate symbol of the South. I resigned from a so-called 'gay greasers' Yahoo group because a load of ignorant Yankees treated it as a gay dating site and seemed to know nothing about the South, and even less about real Rockabilly music, but all pounced on me for daring to even suggest that the Dixie flag is seen at all Rockabilly/1950s rock'n'roll events as a symbol of the musical heritage of the South.

 
I find this quite tragic, as rock'n'roll in the 1950s spearheaded the breakdown of barriers between black and white thru the fusion of black and white Southern music (Blues and Country) via people like Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, etc. The KKK tried to strangle it at birth as 'jungle music'. It helped break down segregation and led to the Civil Rights Movement which won victories in the 1960s. So waving the Dixie flag at such venues is, in my book, claiming the flag for the de-segregators, for both black and white Southerners, much as we gays claimed the Nazi 'pink triangle' gays were forced to wear in the concentration camps as a symbol of gay liberation in the 1970s.
 
Tony (gay ex-Commie liberal/Socialist, but a good ole boy, y'all!)

*****

Yeah, I feel sorry about the stereotype that people have about the 
Rebel Flag, y'know, slavery and all that shit. I just love 
rockabilly, blues and rock n' roll (also reggae and ska) and think 
that the flag symbolizes the music, not what the stereotypes make it 
to , but still some rockers have the slogan "The South will rise 
again!", I dunno about you, but to me that is little too much. I 
myself haven't got the balls to wear the flag in any form, but IF I 
had the balls, I would! The lack of balls is mostly, that if there 
was a crowd offended by me wearing the flag, I think I'd get beated 
up before I was able to tell what it resembles. O.M., France.

Tony's reply:

I've never had any problem wearing or displaying the flag. The only place you're likely to encounter such problems are in the northern and western states of the USA (because they see it as the flag of a defeated nation which DARED to challenge Uncle Sam, and also because liberals/blacks still see it as 'racist'), or from some, note not all, blacks in the Southern States.
 
I was careful where I wore the emblem in the States, but have had no real problems in Europe. Even the BBC displayed the flag to illustrate a program about Country Music. I have no real problems even with the tongue-in-cheek slogan 'The South's Gonna Rise Again!' No-one seriously expects this to happen literally, it is just an expression of being a Rebel and appreciating Southern heritage.
 
In reality, the Dixie States are a different country entirely from the Yankee ones. Even an American from Colorado told me recently he wished the South had won as then they'd be a separate nation, and wouldn't saddle Yankees with rightwing governments.
 
Scotland has its own parliament, Northern Ireland and Wales their own Assemblies. I see no reason why the Dixie States shouldn't have their own national Senate within the federal structure of the United States, nor why the Dixie flag shouldn't represent this region of the United States. Things have moved on since the days of slavery, many Southern cities have black mayors and many other black politicians.

****

From Linda in the UK, July 2009:

I read with extreme dismay a lot of what was written on your site with reference to the Rebel flag and also the Union Jack, those who think racist will see racist, irrespective of the symbol shown, I strongly disagree that the Union Jack is a racist flag, it is a symbol of a United Kingdom, composed of three Christian flags co joined into one, like it or not this flag is a proud and venerated flag and viewed as such by the majority of the British population, irrespective of their creed or colour, that extremists have hijacked it along with the Southern battle flag does not make it a racist symbol , except in the minds of the politically correct and pseudo intellectual forever abhorring vocal crowd, I have two claims to allegiance here, one to my nation the UK, and one to the nation that foundered, the Confederate States of America.

I was a member of the UKs armed forces and hold the flag of my nation in reverence, flying it continually every single day to remember those who did not return from active service and because I am proud to be British, and I also fly the Confederate flag every day, due to relatives in my family having been directly involved in that struggle for independence and I am proud of that also, on neither count am I racist, treat with the man as you would wish to be treated, but to thine own self be true. I have many friends, black, white, and of other hues and colours, and of many religions, and I am not ashamed to let them know of my beliefs and my families involvement in the war between the states on the side of the Confederacy, and my friends are genuinely interested as I present this in a purely historical way and not in any way shape or form in a racist aspect.

This country, Britain is a great country, it has stood up to all kinds of mad men and tyrants, it dealt in and eventually outlawed slavery, and yes it had an empire that covered a quarter of the earths surface at its height, and yes there was institutionalised racism within the make up of that empire, the symbol of this nation is the Union Jack, and what that also stands for is decency, honesty, the rights of oppressed peoples, a safe haven, and a willingness to fight for what is right when others will not.

I have visited the Southern States many times and have great liberal friends there, I love the culture and the peoples both black and white and its not the ordinary person who objects to the wearing of the flag, it’s the vociferous minority who have the political positions to make the most trouble, again I say, those who see racist think racist, be proud of your heritage and do not just give in and alter that which does not need altering, do not let others apologise on your behalf for that which happened long before any here were born, remember the decisions taken so long ago reflect the values of so long ago and should not be seen in modern terms but viewed in the historical context in which they were made, rather than changing and making new symbols lets educate and teach what the correct history of these existing symbols truly mean, and by that tell people how they reflect in this modern age as a lesson to us all, can we please stop this crazy round of political correctness and just be adult enough to realise that the world contains many peoples of many varying creeds and beliefs and maybe just maybe we would all be better off by trying to understand each other instead of trying to suppress.

*****

From Mike G, in Denmark, July 2009:

Ey Tony
 
My name is Mike and i live in a small country in Europe called Denmark, i just wanna add to those that think that we dont understand the meaning and ideas that the Rebel flags stands for...
 
First of all, we have more or less the same background regarding the violence in our past, you battle was between two states with different visions on life and how to live, where ours was oppression from 2 world wars. and i don´t need to write more on that, since its a part of your history too.
 
I spend a lot of my time in the states, because i love America i love the people and not to forget i looove you old cars :)
 
But one of the things i always notice on my travels is that its almost tabu to speak of the american history unless its one of the greater moments in history, and i belive thats sad... you gotta take the good with the bad, and hopefully learn from it.
 
The people in Denmark and Sweden love the American 40-70´s culture, we live it to the fullest in the summertime, we start up our huge honkin´V8, load up the trailer with goodies and drive cross Europe to different Cruise´s `n´ Meets.
 
And my "Pick ém up Truck" has both the regular Stars n´ Stripes & the Rebel flag on 2 flagpoles in the back....
 
I´m no racist and if i was i would choose something closer to our own history like the Nazi´s, but both those flags represent the states for us and also all the cool Rock á Billy Music
 
So my opinion is ... get by your past but dont forget it, because your past is part of what you are today, likewise dont get stuck in the past, live your life.... and remember that is was many years ago and its time to get startet on a new era of greatness
 
Cheers & Regards
Mike G.
 

Hi there Mike,

 
Er..... fine, but I'm not American. I'm proud to be a citizen of the fledgling federal United States of Europe though - the EU. I consider myself European rather than British, though of course I'm both.
 
Yours is the second comment I received today on that very old article on my old website. I'd discontinued posting comments, but still they come in years and years after the article was written and the Website left dormant (I now have a blog which supercedes it). However I'll add the two comments received today, many thanks.
 
Tony

*****

August 2009 from Paula C:

I get so tired of liberal and yankee bigots talk about  the so-called REBEL FLAG.  They are such hypocrites.  The slavery trade was established , financed and outfitted in the Northeast states.  Slavery was brought here under the so-called United States flag.  These yankee bigots have forgotten THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE for slavery.  The saying, "The North imported the slaves, the South only bought them". is factual.   When I hear a yankee or liberal mouthing off about the "rebel flag", I want to yell as loud as i can, "JUST SHUT UP HYPOCRITE".  Study history and GET YOU FACTS RIGHT

*****

September 2009 from Joanne S:

My name is Joanne I am from the south specifically Florida. There have been several threats of banning the wearing of the confederate flag in my school but they have yet to do it. Why? Because even some of the blacks at my school wear the rebel flag. I think people need to realize that the rebel flag really doesn't represent slavery. It is used more commonly to represent the South. I have friends that wear the rebel flag quite often, in fact most of the people who wear it are not racist. Those who are racist don't really even understand why they are.

It came to my attention last year in school when an 8th grader on my bus decided he was going to call the only black person that was on my bus a nigger and talk badly about him when 1 he doesn't know the kid and 2 he didn't even say it in front of the kid. He says his great grandfather was a member of th KKK and what not and I asked him if he even understood why he was saying the things he was saying. The only response I got was "cause I just don't like em', they're black".

If you don't know this the word Nigger does not specifically mean black the word means a person of any race or origin regarded as contemptible, inferior, or ignorant. How can one associate or even use this word with blacks when it doesn't even specifically  apply to them.

My great grandfather is a racist but in regards to wearing the rebel flag he doesn't, he uses the strongest thing he has "his mouth". I think that the flag should be allowed because it is not the fact that you are wearing it it is how you wear it. I wear the rebel flag on occasion but I'm not a racist,  my friends wear the rebel flag and they're not racist. So why is it that the racist tag has to be pinned on those who wear the confederate flag those that wear it wear it as a symbol of the South and someone who disagrees really does need a history lesson.

Our country was formed as "One nation... under god" we  can't even mention god in school anymore. The South is represented by the rebel flag and now we can't even use that. I strongly believe that those who call themselves racist need a reality check. It is the year 2009 now and slavery has become a thing of the past. I say leave it there in the past and don't bring it up unless you really know exactly what you're talking about. 

 

 

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